Re: [Marxism] Mao Tse-Tung Mickey Mouse song(was: somethingor other about porn)

[milongonsinga <milongonsinga@xxxxxxxxx>]

Waistline2 wrote:

"Nope."
 
(In response to "Wasn't the October Revolution defeated with the rise of  
Stalin?")
 
 
Trotsky, State and Revolution:
 
"Classes are characterized by their position in the social system of economy, 
and primarily by their relation to the means of production. In civilized 
societies, property relations are validated by laws. The nationalization of the 
land, the means of industrial production, transport and exchange, together with 
the monopoly of foreign trade, constitute the basis of the Soviet social 
structure. Through these relations, established by the proletarian revolution, 
the nature of the Soviet Union as a proletarian state is for us basically 
defined.'
 
"In its intermediary and regulating function, its concern to maintain social 
ranks, and its exploitation of the state apparatus for personal goals, the 
Soviet bureaucracy is similar to every other bureaucracy, especially the 
fascist. But it is also in a vast way different. In no other regime has a 
bureaucracy ever achieved such a degree of independence from the dominating 
class. In bourgeois society, the bureaucracy represents the interests of a 
possessing and educated class, which has at its disposal innumerable means of 
everyday control over its administration of affairs. The Soviet bureaucracy has 
risen above a class which is hardly emerging from destitution and darkness, and 
has no tradition of dominion or command. Whereas the fascists, when they find 
themselves in power, are united with the big bourgeoisie by bonds of common 
interest, friendship, marriage, etc., the Soviet bureaucracy takes on bourgeois 
customs without having beside it a national
bourgeoisie. In this sense we cannot deny that it is something more than a 
bureaucracy. It is in the full sense of the word the sole privileged and 
commanding stratum in the Soviet society."
 
"Another difference is no less important. The Soviet bureaucracy has 
expropriated the proletariat politically in order by methods of its own to 
defend the social conquests. But the very fact of its appropriation of 
political power in a country where the principal means of production are in the 
hands of the state, creates a new and hitherto unknown relation between the 
bureaucracy and the riches of the nation. The means of production belong to the 
state. But the state, so to speak, âbelongsâ to the bureaucracy. If these 
as yet wholly new relations should solidify, become the norm and be legalized, 
whether with or without resistance from the workers, they would, in the long 
run, lead to a complete liquidation of the social conquests of the proletarian 
revolution. But to speak of that now is at least premature. The proletariat has 
not yet said its last word. The bureaucracy has not yet created social supports 
for its dominion in the form of special
types of property. It is compelled to defend state property as the source of 
its power and its income. In this aspect of its activity it still remains a 
weapon of proletarian dictatorship."
 
Max Schachtman, Revolution and Counter-Revolution in Russia:
 
"Even before it expropriated the economic power of the bourgeoisie, the Russian 
revolution deprived it of its political power. Its place was taken by the rule 
of the working class, a proletarian democracy, Lenin wrote, âa million times 
more democratic than any bourgeois democracy, and the Soviet regime ... a 
million times more democratic than the most democratic rÃgime in a bourgeois 
republic.â The Soviet democracy was based on the abolition of a professional 
governmental bureaucracy divorced from the people, on the indivisibility of the 
legislative and executive bodies, on the direct rule of the toilers through 
their deputies to the Soviets, subject at all times to recall, on the armed 
people as against a professional body of armed men divorced from the masses, 
and on the privileged position of the proletariat as the vanguard of the 
toiling masses. While the Bolshevik party, as the tested and trusted 
revolutionary vanguard of the proletariat, was
the ruling party, it maintained a live and sensitive contact with the toilers 
through the Soviets, the trade unions, the factory committees, the committees 
of poor peasants, the cooperatives, and similar institutions. The existence of 
a wide freedom of discussion and decision in all these bodies, of genuine 
workersâ democracy, made of this interlocking system of institutions the 
living reality of the political rule of the proletariat â never ideal or 
flawless, to be sure, but decisive."
 
"The counter-revolution of the Stalinist bureaucracy consists in nothing less 
than this; It has effectively destroyed all these institutions in the last 
fourteen years and thereby it has just as effectively expropriated the 
proletariat politically."
 
There is no socilaism without democracy. 
 

 
"If we have shortcomings, we are not afraid to have them pointed out and 
criticized, because we serve the people. Anyone, no matter who, may point out 
our shortcomings. If he is right, we will correct them. If what he proposes 
will benefit the people, we will act upon it." -Mao Tsetung




----- Original Message ----
From: "Waistline2@xxxxxxx" <Waistline2@xxxxxxx>
To: milongonsinga@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:08:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Mao Tse-Tung Mickey Mouse song(was: somethingor other 
about porn)


In a message dated 5/16/2009 12:32:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
milongonsinga@xxxxxxxxx writes:


>> Wasn't the October Revolution defeated with the rise of  Stalin? <<


Comment

Nope. 

Please . . . no "trick questions?" 

WL. 






**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May
Excfooter51609NO62)
________________________________________________
YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
Send list submissions to: Marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/milongonsinga%40yahoo.com

________________________________________________
YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
Send list submissions to: Marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40archives.econ.utah.edu