[Marxism] Interview with Left Party Leader Oskar Lafontaine

[Einde O'Callaghan <eindeoc@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Interview with Left Party Leader Oskar Lafontaine

'We Want to Overthrow Capitalism'

Spiegal (Germany)
May 14, 2009

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,624880,00.html#ref=nlint

In an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE, Left Party
Chairman Oskar Lafontaine speaks about his party's
chances in the upcoming elections, its alleged drift to
the left and why Angela Merkel needs to work through
certain aspects of her communist past.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mr. Lafontaine, is Germany embroiled in
a class struggle?

Oskar Lafontaine: The US billionaire Warren Buffett
answered this question much better than the Left Party
ever could. "It's class warfare; my class is winning,"
he said. To which I would add: The class that has been
losing for years is starting to stir again.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: "Greed, avarice, selfishness and
irresponsibility of the ruling class," the rich who
"want to make even more money out of a lot of money" --
your party's draft platform for the upcoming German
national elections sounds like Marx and Engels. Do you
really believe that you can appeal to voters with such
strong slogans?

Lafontaine: When the German president (Horst Kohler
talks about "monsters" and (Social Democratic Party
leader) Franz Muntefering speaks of "locusts" and
"losers," then we have actually made it into the center
of society.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The first draft was much more cautious.
In fact, it was so moderate that your comrades from the
party's left wing protested and accused it of sounding
like a watered-down version of the Social Democrats
(SPD). Do the more moderate elements in your party no
longer have any say?

Lafontaine: We tightened up the draft. In the process,
certain points became clearer. And it's totally normal
for different factions of a party to write different
documents. That's something I've been familiar with now
for over 40 years.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: You have even introduced the term
"democratic socialism" into the draft.

Lafontaine: Nobody in our party's executive committee
is naive enough to think that we could change our
society so much over the next four years that it could
rightfully be called democratic socialist. But if the
SPD is talking about democratic socialism, one will
surely forgive the Left Party for using the term
(laughs).

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your Left Party colleague Sahra
Wagenknecht does not want to fix capitalism; she wants
to overthrow it. What do you think?

Lafontaine: The entire Left Party sees it that way. We
want to overthrow capitalism.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How would that be possible?

Lafontaine: We will change the economic order. That
begins with regulating international financial markets.
When we first put this subject on the agenda, our
critics were still in the process of rolling out the
red carpet for financial capitalism. Financial
capitalism has failed. We need to democratize the
economy. The workforce needs to have a far greater say
in their companies than has been the case so far.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: What should we expect to happen once
you've overthrown capitalism?

Lafontaine: A society in which every person enjoys the
highest possible degree of freedom.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do you seriously believe that our
society does not provide enough freedom?

Lafontaine: We have a society in which people are
excluded from work and live on Hartz IV (ed's: Germany
reduced monthly welfare payments for the long-term
unemployed introduced as part of structural reforms
known as Agenda 2010 implemented in 2003 by the then-
government, a coalition of the SPD and Green Party) and
in which the educational system reinforces social
inequalities. Such a society is not really a free
society.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your candidate lists for the
parliamentary elections show a clear trend toward the
far left within your party. Carl Wechselberg, your
expert on budget issues in the Berlin city government,
has accused you of leading the Left Party astray (ed's
note: Citing differences of opinion with his party,
Wechselberg left the Left Party after this interview
was conducted). What is your response?

Lafontaine: The decisions of the Left Party are
supported by large majorities. There are always
dissenting opinions. In regard to the candidate lists,
our reformist forces talk about a leftward shift, while
the left wing thinks it sees a shift to the right.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But in North Rhine-Westphalia, a series
of candidates from the far left of the party hold
prominent places on the list.

Lafontaine: Yes, but on the other hand, there are state
party organizations in which the left wing of the party
sees all the candidates coming from the right wing of
the party.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Where?

Lafontaine: I'm convinced that the mixture of the
candidates on our list reflects the range of positions
within the party.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But your draft platform for the
national elections doesn't exactly sound balanced. You
want to do a number of things, including abolishing
Hartz IV, reintroducing 65 as the retirement age (in
2007, the German government increased the legal age to
collect a full pension to 67), pulling the German army
out of Afghanistan, introducing a ?10 ($13.6) minimum
wage and launching an annual public investment program
worth ?100 billion. With such goals, the Left Party
will never be able to enter into a coalition with any
other party.

Lafontaine: We have always been very clear about our
prerequisites for entering into a coalition. The SPD
and the Greens have both significantly changed their
positions on Hartz IV. Likewise, on the issues of
minimum wage and pensions, those parties have made a
certain degree of movement. And when it comes to the
issue of withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan, the
SPD and the Greens will probably only come to their
senses once US President Barack Obama realizes that the
war in Afghanistan cannot be won and withdraws his
military.

The Christian Democrats of Roland Koch came out on top
in the state parliamentary elections with 37.2 percent
of the vote. Still, the result was hardly better than
the 36.8 percent the CDU received in 2008, the worst
result for the party in Hesse since 1966.

The CDU will be able to form a coalition with the
business-friendly Free Democrats (FDP), which increased
their vote total substantially over a year ago to 16.2
percent.

The Social Democrats achieved a horrific result of just
23.7 percent. The total is the SPD's worst ever in
Hesse and is fully 13 percentage points worse than a
year ago. The Greens improved substantially to 13.7
percent and the far-left Left Party came out with 5.4
percent, slightly better than the 5.1 percent the party
polled in Jan. 2008.

Germany's president is a largely ceremonial position
and is chosen by a body known as the Federal Assembly,
made up of parliamentarians in Berlin along with
representatives from state parliaments. Even if the
position is non-political, the vote this year, coming
just months before the general elections, has political
implications.

Should current President Horst Kohler, who has the
support of the CDU and the FDP, be re-elected, it could
give Merkel a small boost going into September. But the
SPD have also entered a candidate, Gesine Schwan. Most
pundits assume that Koher will be re-elected,
particularly given that a number of Green Party members
-- and some within the SPD -- have hinted that they
would throw their support behind the incumbent. But the
fact that the Left Party also has a candidate, the ex-
television actor Peter Sodann, could open the door for
Schwan. Should Kohler not receive an absolute majority
in the first two rounds, only a simple majority would
be necessary in the third, meaning that if the SPD, the
Greens and the Left Party all opted to support Schwan,
she could theoretically unseat Kohler though it is not
seen as likely.

Should that happen, however, it would put Steinmeier in
a bind. After all, the SPD has said it doesn't want to
work with the Left Party on the national stage.

Currently governed by the Christian Democrats, polls
indicate that the CDU likely won't be able to hold on
to its leadership position. The Left Party especially
has found a huge increase in support in the western
German state. The party won just 2.3 percent of the
vote four years ago but polls now show that over 20
percent of Saarland voters support the Left Party.

Many commentators in Germany see Saarland as the best
candidate for the first SPD-Left Party alliance in
western Germany. The elections are in late August,
meaning such a "red-red" coalition could come just as
German voters are heading to the polls for late-
September general elections. That would likely hurt
Steinmeier's chances.

The eastern German state of Saxony voted strongly in
favor of the Christian Democrats in 2004 and looks set
to do so again this year. An early November survey
found that 42 percent of voters in the state will cast
their ballots for the CDU. The state has been governed
together by the CDU and SPD for the last four years,
but the liberal FDP has gained support, opening the
door to a possible CDU/FDP alliance.

The Left Party is strong, polling 20 percent, but
likely won't be strong enough to form a majority with
the SPD, despite the latter party's increase in
popularity since 2004. The neo-Nazi party NPD, which
made international headlines in 2004 by raking in over
9 percent of the Saxony vote, appears headed for
embarrassment. It is polling far below 5 percent, the
minimum necessary for state parliamentary
representation.

Polls taken last autumn showed that Christian
Democratic Governor Dieter Althaus was already facing a
difficult campaign challenge prior to his Jan. 1 skiing
accident. On New Year's Day, he was involved in a
horrific collision at a ski resort in Austria that sent
him to the hospital with severe head injuries. The
woman he ran into died. His political future is now
uncertain, given that, even if he does return to full
health, he may have to face charges of involuntary
manslaughter.

Pre-accident polls indicated that Althaus' CDU, which
won 43 percent of the vote in 2004, could count on only
33 percent support. Such a result could open the way to
coalition of the SPD (18 percent support) and the Left
Party (30 percent support), though it is unclear
whether the SPD would be interested in joining such an
alliance as the junior partner. The Green Party may
likewise sneak into the Thuringia parliament.

In 2004 elections, Germany seemed to take a page out of
the US election handbook, with the SPD and CDU ending
up nearly in a dead heat. Once all the votes were
counted, it was the CDU which nosed ahead with 35.2
percent of the vote, a weak result that led to
breathless speculation about all manner of different
possible coalitions.

In the end, the CDU and the SPD joined forces for only
the second such coalition in Germany's post-war
history. Even though the Social Democrats have lost
considerable traction since then, there is little to
indicate that 2009 will be any different. The SPD has
said it will not ally with the Left Party on the
national level, and the CDU's preferred partner, the
FDP, likely will not win enough votes to overcome the
CDU's mediocre form. Should Merkel once again emerge at
the head of a grand coalition, it will be the first
time in German history that such an alliance gets re-
elected.

The eastern German state of Brandenburg has been
governed by a "grand coalition" pairing the SPD and the
CDU for the last four years. Polls indicate that there
is little to prevent the arrangement from continuing.
But the Left Party is also very strong in Brandenburg,
meaning the SPD could opt to partner with the far left.
Because the election is on the same day as general
elections, the Brandenburg vote will not have
nationwide implications.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your positions are all extremely firm
demands; but politics requires compromises.

Lafontaine: We are also prepared to make compromises,
but every party has certain positions that cannot be
ceded. The Greens, for example, would never vote for
nuclear power.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: You recently proposed raising the top
income tax rate to 80 percent. Do you expect to be
taken seriously?

Lafontaine: That is not in our draft manifesto. But,
for a long time, I have been calling for that to happen
with incomes that are 20 times or more the average
salary. Nobody is so productive that he deserves to
make more than 20 times the salary of a skilled worker.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In the past, your poll results have
been better. The anti-capitalist Left Party is
stagnating in its approval ratings or losing ground
precisely in the middle of the deepest economic crisis
since 1929. How do you explain that?

Lafontaine: It's true that the Left Party needs to
become stronger, but past experience shows that
governments tend to make slight gains in times of
crisis. Granted, support for the FDP (ed's note: the
business-friendly Free Democratic Party) is still
growing, but I would already venture to predict that a
Christian Democrats/FDP coalition would not have a
majority after the parliamentary elections.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: And then?

Lafontaine: Although the (conservative) Christian
Democratic Union (CDU) is stagnating in comparison to
the last national election and the SPD is losing
support, there's a chance we will see a continuation of
the grand coalition (ed's note: the current CDU-SPD
coalition government). That is exactly what the SPD's
leadership sees as their salvation, so they are only
pretending to run an election campaign.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: You once said that former SPD leader
Kurt Beck could become chancellor immediately if he
were to push through the minimum wage, restore the
previous pension system, abolish Hartz IV and pull the
German military out of Afghanistan. Does this offer
apply to the SPD's current candidate for chancellor,
Frank-Walter Steinmeier?

Lafontaine: Of course. Our positions are not connected
to individuals but to content. If Mr. Steinmeier were
to endorse such positions, he could become chancellor
tomorrow.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: German Chancellor Angela Merkel wants
to continue to measure the Left Party by its attitude
toward East Germany's past.

Lafontaine: An interesting psychological case. People
tend to accuse other people of their own mistakes. Ms.
Merkel needs to deal with her own past in East Germany
and that of her own party. She was an FDJ functionary
for agitation and propaganda (ed's note: The FDJ was an
official youth movement in communist East Germany). As
such she belonged to the fighting reserve of the party
(ed's note: the Communist Socialist Unity Party (SED)).

SPIEGEL ONLINE: What's at issue here is how one sees
East Germany, 20 years after the fall of the Wall. One
has the impression that this issue has not been
definitively resolved within your party.

Lafontaine: The PDS has, as one of the Left Party's
predecessor parties, dealt with the question of its
relationship to East Germany at many party conferences
and in the papers (ed's note: For an explanation of the
PDS and the parties that united to form the Left Party,
please click here http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,365675,00.ht
Only the CDU has not done so. It swallowed the assets
of two of the SED's satellite parties, and otherwise
covers up its past with a cloak of silence.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Was East Germany a dictatorship in
which the rule of law did not apply?

Lafontaine: The GDR was not a state based on the rule
of law -- that is a much more precise answer.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In a few days, the German president
will be elected. Will the SPD's candidate, Gesine
Schwan, be able to rely on your vote in a possible
second or third round of voting, should the incumbent,
Horst Kohler, not achieve an absolute majority in the
first round?

Lafontaine: We have yet to make a decision on this
issue. We will discuss how to proceed after the first
round of voting, should Horst Kohler not already have
been confirmed in office.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Does that mean that your own candidate,
Peter Sodann, would be a good fit for the Left Party?

Lafontaine: A lot of media outlets have written about
him in a very disparaging way. We continue to believe
that there must be a candidate for the highest
political office who castigates Hartz IV and wars that
violate international law.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: You would like to become governor of
Saarland. In a survey conducted in that federal state,
the Left Party lost 5 percentage points and is now only
supported by 18 percent of the population. Will party
leader Lafontaine no longer emerge as the likely
election victor?

Lafontaine: And other polls say other things. I'm
convinced that we will get 20-plus percent of the vote
in Saarland.

Interview conducted by Bjorn Hengst and Claus Christian
Malzah


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