[Marxism] Interview with Nepali gay activist

[Jeffrey Thomas Piercy <mqduck@xxxxxxxxx>]

http://maobadiwatch.blogspot.com/2009/03/interview-with-subash-pokharel-co.html
also available here, with a picture: 
http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2009/03/21/interview-sunil-b-pant-a-leading-gay-activist-in-nepal/

--
Interview with Subash Pokharel, co-ordinator of the Blue Diamond Society

Lal Salam blog interviewed Subash Pokharel of the Blue Diamond Society 
last week. The Blue Diamond Society is the largest LGBTI (lesbians, gay 
men, bisexuals, transgender and intergender people- i think thats the 
correct terminology- apologies if it isnt) rights organisation in Nepal 
and were good enough to speak with us about the situation in their 
community.

Ben Peterson: Subash Pokhrel thank you very much for meeting with me.

Subash Pokhrel: You’re welcome.

BP: Ok, so I have read allot about Nepal and it is clear that Hindu, and 
in particular an orthodox form of Hinduism plays a big role in the 
society here. Is that something that has been of a concern for people of 
sexual minorities?

SP: It is a religious society so, basically, One Culture, One Religion, 
one pattern, I think every religion is like that, but we have a 
diversity of religions and cultures and patterns in the society. For 
more than two centenaries the Hindu religion was carried out by 
Brahmins, the so called high castes in the society dominated. And that 
religion dominated in all aspects of society as well as government 
bodies, policy makers, decision makers, all were basically Brahmins, the 
Hindu based caste group. Due to the thinking, and because of this 
religion, they cannot imagine that certain other cultures, other groups, 
other genders, exist in this society. They only recognize the 
established, such as the male and female relationship. But while older 
generations feared this, slowly attitudes are changing. We are starting 
to come out at the front, committee groups are already raising out voice 
in the decision making bodies, like the present Constituent Assembly. We 
have a representative in the House, Sunil Babu Panta.

BP: The openly gay member of the Constituent Assembly?

SP: Yes, that is him. He has been implementing that committee. So right 
now we are a bit comfortable in society.

BP: Well that’s good to hear.

SP: Thank you.

BP: So you said that there has been alot and in recent times there has 
been increasing amount of change, and you’ve been able to open up, or 
there has been a lot more space for diversity…

SP: I think we are in the process of making the constitution, a new 
constitution, in Nepal and the process has started and we have been 
engaging in that process. And very good political sentiments are already 
in the scheme, like including out committee. In every front they are 
trying to include male, female and other groups. Others can be included. 
Some of the provisions are already there, there is already a sexual and 
gender minorities committee. So it’s very positive.

We are very much hopeful in two or three years at least we’ll have very 
inclusive legal documents, legal framework, legal mechanisms.

Though full gay rights became legalized in Nepal in November, 2008, 
being openly gay is still potentially dangerous. Especially for Nepali 
women who have come out of the closet.

BP: That’s fantastic

SP: Three years, or lets say five years, depends on how long it takes to 
make the constitution.

BP: So how large is the LGBTI community in Nepal? I have noticed, 
although I have only been here a short time, that unlike in Australia, 
it is very acceptable to show affection to members of the same sex, and 
even hold hands and hug in public. So do the lines between the 
communities sometimes blur?

SP:Yes, tentative time: We have to assess the fact that society will 
always change slowly, not abruptly.

Today’s government policies and legal framework… Until we have good 
legal mechanisms, there can be no change, legal binding things to the 
society. It’s very hard to expect that society will change without the 
laws being changed also. And when bad laws re-enforced this leads to 
discrimination. We are hoping that in the right legal framework will 
include the right provisions and on that basis we can advocate, lobby.

You know we are in society, are citizens the same as other citizens, so 
why you not accepting us?

And through this society will change. But already we are starting to 
extend our networks, with other organizations, like civil liberties 
organizations, civil society organizations, media and political parties. 
We have very good relations, and they are starting to understand us, 
slowly we are entering into society.

BP: So how is your relationship with the Maoists, now that they lead the 
government? I have read some things that up until a few years ago, and 
even more recently, their cadre would pressure people not to accept 
queer tenants, and these sorts of things. But I have also been seeing a 
lot recently which would suggest a change in their policy.

SP: Yes, in principle, the Maoist culture has also been monolithic. They 
also believed in one culture, and one command. I think that kind of 
culture has influence in any kind of organization, but because we  can 
channel our voice into their party organisations, due practically to our 
representative in the Constituent Assembly.

I think you would probably know about the two lesbian commandos. Rebels 
in the Maoists rebel group [People's Liberation Army]. They expelled 
them from the cantonments. [The PLA is currently in cantonments under UN 
supervision as part of an ongoing peace process].

BP: No I wasn’t aware of that.

SP: After they were expelled they came to our office, and we provided 
them with some accommodation for one month, and we continued to explore 
within the Maoist organisation, later on after one month, our 
approaching and our relationship with the leadership meant that after 
one month they were able to return to the cantonments.

This is a great example of how we have been able to make them believe — 
We are as human as you are, we are citizens as you are. We have a very 
natural sexual activities. We are sexual beings. It’s not a crime. This 
kind of thing made them convinced.

BP: And now they have been returned to the camps?

SP: Yes, Yes. At least we are able to convince others. They are trying 
to learn. They are listening to us. This process is going on. Although 
all these things are happening, we are able to convince them and they 
are fixing the incidents.

BP: I think I will have to look into that case more.

SP: At least we can go to the certain cultural organisations and put our 
voice forward. This sort of environment encourages us to use our voice 
because the democracy is there. Democracy makes us go and ask and 
encourage others.

BP: So you’re with the Blue Diamond Society…

SP: Yes Yes.

BP: So what sort of activities does the Blue Diamond Society do? You 
mentioned before about providingaccommodation for the PLA women when 
they ere expelled, what sort of activities do you do besides lobbying?

SP:Well, the organisation was established in 2001. Formally an NGO, non 
government organisation. We have a very long struggle. First time our 
committee focused on HIV prevention and treatment, that kind of thing, 
because our committee was very alarmed by HIV. Basically through donors 
like Family Health International, USAID, UNAID, these organisations 
assisted us greatly in the area of HIV/AIDS prevention. And later on we 
realized that only confining to HIV related things will not take us into 
our different issues. We were experts on HIV because of our sexuality. 
We are operated by donation and government donation. We are not stranded 
in this city only confined to issues of HIV/AIDS, it will not resolve 
our whole social issues, so e started to campaign and raise our voice in 
the medium of human rights campaigning. By working with other group’s e 
were able to establish good networks with the Media, human rights 
organisations even the political parties. So on the basis of our human 
rights work and our HIV/AIDS work we have built our capacity.

BP: Has there been much risk involved in this work? In recent times in 
Nepal there has been widespread human rights violations, so by taking up 
the struggle for LGBTI rights have your brought much anger to yourself 
and your organisation?

SP: In previous years the committee and our people, because we have no 
legal protection in the law we could not plead to the police to protect 
us from violations. Basically our community had to rely on sex work, we 
had no other means of livelihood in the previous years, but now the 
society is able to employ more than 500 people. Blue Diamond Society now 
has more than 35 offices in Nepal. It’s a very good network, and we are 
very influential already. That sort of violence against the community 
was very great in previous years, but now because we have support from 
other organisations we are able to have confidence in our protection, 
and do our work, but there is still violence there.

BP: Starting in 2001 and already having 35 offices, that’s a pretty 
impressive effort. Do you do much work in rural areas as well, and if 
so, how does this differ from urban work in say Katmandu?

SP: People in our community they have too, almost all, more than95% I 
would say, if they are to become open about their sexuality, they are 
expelled from and have to get out of their family, community and even 
village. So it is typical that those who have been expelled from their 
villages tend to center around the cities. I don’t know why the 
community centers around the city areas, in search of employment I 
think. So we concentrate on city areas. People come to live there, and 
open up offices. Initially we had one office, but so many people came, 
and got in contact with the Blue Diamond Society, we encouraged them to 
open up more offices in their area. In that way we are able to grow. We 
were able to increase our HIV work and we have support in our HIV 
prevention work, because we are recognized and work with the 
government’s plan of prevention. So because of that, and the 
international community we have been able to open up our offices.

BP: So you are largely assisted by international organisations?

SP: Yes, and the government. Recently there has been a land mark case in 
the Supreme Court granting all sorts of civil rights to the LGBTI 
community. Slowly we are being included more in the government. There is 
a very small but symbolic support for our community.

BP: So we mentioned the new constitution being written earlier. What are 
your hopes for the new Constitution and the “New Nepal”?

SP: It is in the discussion process, and the Supreme Court has ordered 
the government to form one committee, a study committee, so they will 
research the needs of our community and the international norms and make 
recommendations for the constituent assembly. It is in the discussion 
phase. But all of our rights have been committed too.

BP: So as you say it is an ongoing process, but is there any already 
noticeable difference in the attitudes of people? Is there more 
acceptance then there was a few years ago?

SP: Ultimately attitudes are changing. Our public based programs are 
bringing more people into contact with the LGBTI community. The 
antagonisms between our community and society as whole is starting to 
slowly lessen, but even in developed nations things are not perfect and 
ideal.

BP: Yes Australia is an example of that.

SP: I do not know the situation in your country, but it is very hard for 
some elements in society to recognize and accept our rights.

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