Re: [Marxism] Will socialists support socialists in Queensland state election?

[Ratbag Media <ratbagradio@xxxxxxxxx>]

And the rationalisations continue:

[NOTES for offshore observers: The question of the Royal Commission
relates to the death in police custody of an Aboriginal man Mulrunji
Doomadgee after a cop was acquitted of killing him, the cop's history
of violence against Murris was disallowed in court,  and Lex Wotton
was sent to jail for leading a "riot" against the police station on
Palm Island where it occurred in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Palm_Island_death_in_custody
[Sam Watson has been the leader of the protest campaign since that
murder  as well as being an activist for Indigenous Rights in
Queensland over the past 40 years.
[Unlike a large section of the Indigenous leadership he has not  been
coopted.In this instance his crime is of course that he is  a loyal
member of the Socialist Alliance -- by definition, an 'alliance of
socialists'..And loyal members of the Socialist  Alliance aren't
supposed to exist .
[Sam's most recent involvement has been in support of St Marys parish
priest Peter Kennedy who has run a sort of 'liberation theology'
ministry in the electorate-- focusing on the homeless, aboriginines
and poor -- before the Vatican aligned bishop of Brisbane sacked him
last month.This has led to a groundswell protest campaign  among
parishioners and local Murris have set up a 'tent embassy' in the
church grounds.

[The Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody (1987-1991)
studied and reported on the high level of deaths of Aboriginal people
whilst in police custody after being arrested or convicted of
committing crimes. Its' findings and recommendations have set a
benchmark for protecting indigenous people while in police custody but
hardly any of its recommendations have been put into place anywhere in
Australia. In the case of Mulrunji such procedures on Palm were
completely  absent and a lie-ing conspiracy set in the moment Mulrunji
died alone on the floor of the police cell.

[As for the QLD Greens:The Qld Greens primary focus this election has
been to get Ronan Lee re-elected . Lee, a member of state parliament
for the state seat of Indooroopilly , left the ALP in October last
year and joined the Greens. While Lee has been vocal on environment
issues -- esp the Mary River Dam --  he has made it very clear that he
opposes gay rights and abortion law reform.The Greens have no other
representation at any level of government aside from Lee. However as
pointed out before the preferential system of voting in Australia
allows voters to rank their votes to flow down the card so a vote for
the SA can flow to the SA's second preference  or third as primary
votes are registered. So normally a vote (1) SA is also a vote for the
Greens (which normally get the SA's 2nd preference]   and the SA
usually puts the ALP ahead of the rest of the ticket.So a vote for the
SA gets counted twice: once until the SA  falls out of the race  and
again on the basis of its preference flow. At the last federal
election for example , aside from the Alliance itself,  only two small
far left groups called for a vote for other socialists -- and one of
these  could not bring themselves to mention the Alliance by name. --
dave riley]
------

 As I said, the strained rationalisations on the question of
"socialists NOT supporting socialists" continue:
-----
http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/82hyd/sam_watson_socialist_allliance_\candidate_for/

-------

dammitdoll 2 points 22 hours ago* [-]

I've seen Sam Watson speak at rallies, and he's awesome to listen to. He's so
angry yet thoughtful and inspiring at the same time.

The only problem I think is that he has the view that change can come through
parliament, that the state is a neutral entity, which kind of contradicts a lot
of the things he says about it and his anger toward it (justified anger). But
there's reformism for you.

All in all though, he's a strong voice for indigenous people, and is completely
against the northern territory intervention, so I think it'd be cool to see him
be elected, even though I don't think it'd change anything.

glparramatta 1 point 21 hours ago[-]

Sam Watson knows that change cannot come simply through parliament of that the
state is neutral. How can you claim that he does? He regularly leads mass demos
of Indigenous people against the governments of both parties and was at the
forefront of the campaign against the killer cop on Palm Island. Hardly a sign
he thinks the state is neutral. I suggest you get in touch with Socialist
Alliance and help Sam's campaign (and talk to him). P.S. please vote Sam's link
up.

keitopop 2 points 21 hours ago[-]

In regard to "how can you claim that he does?" Well, just by sitting there, and
numerous demonstrations, and listening to him.

"A royal commission!" he calls loudly. As if the Royal Commission had ever
helped the Aboriginal people. On the contrary, it was a stall, something that
delayed the process of justice for the Aboriginal people, and in the end made
mere recommendations with no follow up.

That is one example. I agree with dammitdoll, Sam is an inspiring person, but to
someone who has clarity in their politics, and knows the Capitalist State at all
levels is not an agent for change, and would rather concentrate movement on the
ground in opposition to the state, he can come off as being quite contradictory
at times.

Letter writing, appeals to your ministers and electorates, things of that nature
are what makes him contradictory. We should be organising demonstrations,
talking to the people on the streets in Brisbane city, calling in support on the
ground.

glparramatta 0 points 21 hours ago[-]

Keito, That is just ultraleft abstentionism. A royal commission won by a mass
movement is a gain. Even SAlt has called for royal commissions. It is an
achieveable demand that can mobilise people

Is SAlt going to call for its members and supporters to vote for the Greens
rather than Sam Watson?

keitopop 0 points 16 hours ago[-]

Yes, but its been done already, and one of the things we as Socialists should be
advocating is learning from the movements and achievements of the past. We know
we can mobilise people behind the Aboriginal Rights issue, so we should be
calling for something other than a Royal Commission. Again, that was also only
one example. His rhetoric is rittled with contradictions, if I had a tape of one
of his speeches I'd point each of them out to you, but I do not.

I havn't a clue at this time what Socialist Alternative will be calling on its
members to do in the upcoming election, I'm not a member of the National
Executive. I'm guessing they will choose a route that will send a clear message
to the two major parties, that will also be taken notice of. So it could very
well be the Greens.

ratbagradio 0 points 20 hours ago[-]

So rather than vote for or work for Sam Watson -- the political preference has
to be to endorse the Qld Greens?Is that rule written down some where where we
can see it in chapter and verse? The rule that says you have to turn your back
on the Murri struggle for representation, turn your back on committed activists
and movement leaders like Sam for the sake of playing up to the Greens and
denigrating elections as an arena to advance a political perspective? OK --
let's assume you manage to find it in your scheme of things to endorse Sam and
call for a vote for him. You may even decide to contribute to his campaign -- as
Socialist Alternative has done before for the Greens. (But hey aren't those
Greens supposed to be really fooled by parliament?Aren't they totally
electoralist? Don't they believe absolutely that change begins and ends in
parliament? So you think they should be preferenced ahead of Sam?). That then
opens the complication that Sam is one SA candidate among two at this poll. He
may be kosher but no one else in the Socialist Alliance apparently is allowed to
be according to what may be the strange laws you rule your politics by. If Sam
can be supported as an Alliance candidate, why can't other SA candidates?

Take Mike Crook-- the SA candidate for Sandgate. He was in the ALP for 20 years
and was a leading figure in his community Your Rights at Work campaign which
mobilised hundreds across Brisbane's northern suburbs. They even expelled him
from the ALP Socialist Left for not buckling under Laborist pressures! So while
Sam may get a look in, Mike's not worth it, right? Both are socialists. Both
stand on the same platform. Both are committed to Murri rights...Both are
dedicated and respected activists... So if push comes to shove, why endorse Sam
but not Mike?

I'm certain we'd all like to know.

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