[Marxism] Marx was a restricted consumptionist ( late response)

[Charles Brown <cdb1003@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Here's a reply to Steve Palmer from a while ago. I missed it at the time

CB

^^^^^
> "theory" of underconsumption:
> ___________
> 1. You have made your entire argument balance on one sentence from Marx.

CB: No it doesn't. As I said , it relies on the  beginning and most fundamental 
discussions of Marx in Vol. I of _Capital_ . Steve Palmer and S Artesian ignore 
this, and can't answer it because my argument in based on the most basic 
concepts in _Capital_ as well as the quoted sentence. The concept of 
exploitation is more fundamental than the OCC and FROP in Marx's overall 
thesis. 

Actually , there are even some other points to my argument as made on Marxmail 
last time. I guess I'll go back and find them

^^^^

> 2. It has been pointed out that this sentence has been ripped out of context
> and that, were one to choose the previous sentence, one could turn Marx into
> a disproportionality theorist.

^^^^
CB: It was claimed, but not true that I used the quote out of context. I 
replied to this on Marxmail. The context is where Marx discusses the FROP
^^^^^^^

> 3. It has been pointed out, with quotations, per your request, that Marx
> explicitly disavowed an underconsumptionist explanation.

^^^^^
CB: But then he made one as in the quote. So, as some have said, his discussion 
is contradictory. He didn't leave us a coherent theory of crises.

^^^^^

> 4. It has also been pointed out that in its naive form, per your
> presentation, capitalism would never work.

^^^^
CB: It has been asserted but not demonstrated as true.  Then of course, 
capitalism doesn't "work" in the sense that it always has crises , not to 
mention Marx's "Absolute Law of Capitalist Accumulation" from Vol. I is that 
immiseration is a secular trend of capitalism. 

My presentation is naive , but sophisticated. You can learn from it.

^^^

> 5. Evidence has been presented from Marx to demonstrate that he thought the
> FROP to be central to his theory of crisis.

^^^
CB: Evidence has been presented from Marx that he thought that the ultimate 
cause of all crises is the poverty and restricted consumption of the masses.

^^^^^
> 6. As Sartesian has pointed out, underconsumption/disproportionality (they
> are really the same thing - one viewed from the value side, the other from
> the use value side) is simply one of the manifestations of the FROP
> asserting itself.

^^^^^
CB: I have pointed out to Sartesian that underconsumption follows directly from 
Marx's extensive and fundamental discussion of exploitation in Vol. I. Workers 
are not paid enough to buy all that they make.

^^^^^^

> 7. To all of this, you keep repeating the same quote and have failed to
> respond to any of these specific criticisms.

^^^^^
CB: This is patently false . I have made several arguments, and knocked the 
stuffing out of said sad criticisms.

^^^^^
> 
> Therefore your assertion that "you have no substantive reply" is simply
> untrue.


^^^^^
CB: No your statement here is simply untrue

^^^^
> 
> (And we haven't even gotten started on the politics of all this.)

^^^^^
CB: _You_ haven'r gotten started on the politics. I made a political argument 
that the overproduction/overconsumption arguments view matters from the 
standpoint of the capitalist class.  Poverty and restricted consumption 
approach views matters from the side of reforms favoring the working class. You 
made no reply at all to that, let alone a substantive one.

^^^^
> 
> "Every accusation is a confession."

^^^^^
CB: I see several accusations by you above.



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