Re: [Marxism] How many civilians are dead in Gaza?

[Eli Stephens <elishastephens@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Lüko makes some points I'm afraid I disagree with:

>One can be sure that all people killed by the Israeli onslought are civilians, 
>except those killed on the first day when the bombings hit the police 
>stations, especially the headquarters where a swearing-in ceremony was just 
>held.

Actually, regardless of the Marxist view of police as an arm of the state, in a 
war (a dubious description of the ongoing massacre, but anyway...) police are 
certainly "civilians" unless they are taking part in combat. Many of those 
killed in those bombing were traffic cops; at least one was just part of the 
band (http://lefti.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html#8940223981891842953)



  >Also the militants fighting the aggressor with arms are civilians, they are 
not part of a standing army or conscripts as the aggressors are.

Well, "civilians", while I used it in the subject line, is technically the 
wrong term. "Non-combatants" and "combatants" are the two proper classes of 
people for this purpose. And the militants, regardless of the fact that they 
are completely justified in resisting occupation and the Israelis are 
completely unjustified in launching their attacks and in continuing to oppress 
the Palestinian people, are certainly "combatants."



  >On the other hand, virtually all Israeli citizens are part of the military 
as reservists, except the Arabs and some very orthodox Jeshiva students which 
are exempt from military service. So there are hardly any civilian victim of 
any retaliatory attack by Arab Palestinians within the state of Israel. 

Not correct. Children of course, who have been victims of attacks, are 
certainly civilians, and reservists who have not been called up (i.e., are not 
part of the ongoing battle) are also "non-combatants." To say otherwise is to 
agree with the Israelis that every supporter of Hamas is a "potential 
combatant" and therefore a legitimate target, which they most certainly are 
not, even by international law. 




Eli Stephens
 Left I on the News
 http://lefti.blogspot.com


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