[Marxism] New Deal: Racism, and imperialism

["Charles Brown" <charlesb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Louis Proyect

Charles Brown wrote:
>Lou Pro's analysis has to assume that he makes a better assessment 
>of the New Deal and FDR  on racism and anti-racism than Black people 
>themselves did. That's a grievous error on Lou Pro's part. No, Black 
>people got it right, and knew where their interests were best being 
>served better than Lou's analysis here

Charles, maybe you did not notice the subject heading of the message 
you were responding to but it had the word imperialism in it. 

^^^
CB: Yes, I noticed that . So what ?

^^^^^
Today 
the Israeli air force has killed 140 Palestinians and wounded twice 
that many. Do you think that the Palestinians deserve to die because 
they are not in the American working class?

^^^
CB: No. Do you ?

^^^

 Marx said workers of the 
world unite, not just Black and white American workers.

^^^
CB: That's true , but it doesn't seem to be responsive to what I wrote.  The 
slogan has been updated to "Black, white, Brown, Red and Yellow unite , and 
fight."  (duh).

Anyway, you were the one talking about Black people specifically in Black 
people and the New Deal, as if Black people in their majority made a mistake in 
shifting to supporting the Democratic Party starting with FDR and Truman.

Also, notice the strong Hispanic working class support of Obama. In fact, 
notice the world wide working class support for O.   My position is that the 
workers of the world ( like Black people in the US) know their self-interest 
better than you do; and they seem to identify O has their best bet to be US 
President

^^^
 Your 
inability to say one peep about Obama's ultra-reactionary (you would 
probably use the word fascist if it was being carried out by a 
Republican) foreign policy agenda

^^^
CB: Well, but you aren't talking about the New Deal, which is what I wrote 
about.

Also, Obama doesn't have a reactionary foreign policy. Actually, he has no 
foreign policy yet until he gets into office, but what he has been saying is 
not reactionary.

^^^
 demonstrates a certain amount of 
national chauvinism that has been the Achilles heel of the Stalinist 
movement since its inception.

^^^
CB: No . I haven't demonstrated any such. That's all in your imagination, 
imagining that is _your_ Achilles heal, along with your fantastic obsession 
with "Stalinism".  And , of course, I am not a Stalinist. which means you are 
just repeating your permanent dillusion, not to mention violating one of the 
principles that _you_ set out for your own list: No Stalin-Trotsky bullshit.

^^^

 It led the CPUSA to cheer for the 
internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII and for the atomic 
bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

^^^^
CB: However, I never supported same. So....

^^^

 Here is what Lenin had to say 
about such national chauvinism:

The last third of the nineteenth century saw the transition to the 
new, imperialist era. Finance capital not of one, but of several, 
though very few, Great Powers     enjoys a monopoly. (In Japan and 
Russia the monopoly of military power, vast territories, or special 
facilities for robbing minority nationalities, China, etc., partly 
supplements, partly takes the place of, the monopoly of modern, 
up-to-date finance capital.) This difference explains why England's 
monopoly position could remain unchallenged for decades. The monopoly 
of modern finance capital is being frantically challenged; the era of 
imperialist wars has begun. It was possible in those days to bribe 
and corrupt the working class of one country for decades. This is now 
improbable, if not impossible. But on the other hand, every 
imperialist "Great" Power can and does bribe smaller strata (than in 
England in 1848-68) of the "labour aristocracy". Formerly a 
"bourgeois labour party", to use Engels's remarkably profound 
expression, could arise only in one country, because it alone enjoyed 
a monopoly, but, on the other hand, it could exist for a long time. 
Now a "bourgeois labour party" is inevitable and typical in all 
imperialist countries; but in view of the desperate struggle they are 
waging for the division of spoils it is improbable that such a party 
can prevail for long in a number of countries. For the trusts, the 
financial oligarchy, high prices, etc., while enabling the bribery of 
a handful in the top layers, are increasingly oppressing, crushing, 
ruining and torturing the mass of the proletariat and the semi-proletariat.

full: http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/x01.htm 

^^^
CB:  No what Lenin says there does not apply what I said or think. You are 
hallucinating my positions or something. And it has little apparent 
applicablity to Black people and the New Deal. Black people in that period were 
not part of the US labor aristocracy or labor lieutenants of capital. Black 
people were concentrated in the poorest strata of the US working class. Black 
people were part of the "oppress(ed), crush(ed), 
ruin(ed) and tortur(ed) ... mass of the proletariat and the semi-proletariat.



^^^^

And, here is what Obama had to say about Hamas, the victim of 
Israeli's evil attacks--not to speak of the civilians who are 
suffering "collateral damage":

"My position on Hamas is indistinguishable from the position of 
Hillary Clinton or John McCain. I said they are a terrorist 
organization and I've repeatedly condemned them. I've repeatedly 
said, and I mean what I say: since they are a terrorist organization, 
we should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel, 
renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements."

^^^^
CB: This is demogogy and prevarication ( subtle lying). Obama didn't say this 
after the recent Israeli attack , as you imply

Here's CPUSA's statement on same:


Dear friends and comrades,

Click on this link or see below for a Party  statement on the events in the 
Middle East.

_http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/999/1/42/_ 
(http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/999/1/42/) 


CPUSA  Condemns Gaza Attacks
Issued by the Communist Party,  USA
12/29/2008

The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) emphatically condemns  the continuing Israeli 
air strikes in Gaza, which have left hundreds dead and  over a thousand 
wounded. The hundreds of Israeli air strikes have been carried  out with a 
total 
disregard for the safety of civilians and institutions and  are the latest 
phase 
in a campaign to blockade the economy of Gaza and deny  the people access to 
basic necessities. Israel's disproportionate response to  the resumption of 
the Hamas rocket firings into Israel after the six-month  ceasefire agreement 
expired, dramatically underscored the Bush  Administration's sidetracking of 
diplomatic efforts and negotiations. In fact,  the US government has provided 
the 
basis for Israel's military action with  continued military aid and supplies.

The Communist Party of Israel has  suggested that the current Israeli attacks 
are a demagogic move related to the  current electoral campaign in that 
country, as well as perhaps being intended  to present the incoming Obama 
administration with a fait accompli, making it  more difficult for Obama to 
adopt a new 
approach to the Israel-Palestine  issue.

The CPUSA denounces the Bush administration for the verbal and  material 
support it is now rendering to the Israeli aggression. We condemn all  attacks 
on 
civilians whatever the cause or intention. We call on all  peace-minded people 
in the U.S. to demand an end to the Israeli air strikes,  end threats of a 
ground assault into Palestine, along with an end to Hamas  rocket attacks, and 
to call on the incoming Obama administration to make a  radical change in US 
policy on the Israel-Palestine issue, and to pressure the  Israeli government 
to 
return to honest negotiations toward a two-state  solution.

TAKE ACTION:

1. Contact the White House to protest the  attack and demand emergency 
negotiations for an immediate cease-fire. Call  202-456-1111 or send an email 
to 
_comments@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:comments@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) .

2. Contact your  Representative and Senators in Congress at 202-224-3121.

3. Call upon  President-Elect Obama to pursue a new U.S. policy toward 
Israel/Palestine and  send a message at _www.change.gov_ 
(http://www.change.gov/) 

4. Join  one of the many local actions protesting the assault on  Gaza.










This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

________________________________________________
YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
Send list submissions to: Marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40archives.econ.utah.edu