Re: [Marxism] Seymour/Ayers - rewriting history?

[Tom Cod <tcod@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: causecollector@xxxxxxx
> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:17:11 -0800
> Subject: [Marxism] Seymour/Ayers - rewriting history?
> To: tcod@xxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> Ethan,
>  
> I do not agree with what you wrote below as to being accurate on SDS history.
>  
> The SDS did NOT oppose the Chicago August 1968 protests at the Democratic 
> Party Convention.
> Look at who were SDS members among the Chicago 8 Defendants - and see that 
> SDS put out posters around that protest.  A number of SDSers may have 
> politically opposed the National Mobilization Committee and some may have 
> opposed YIP (Yippie) - but I do not remeber them urging their members to not 
> protest the war and the other demands raised by SCLC the Black Panther PArty 
> and other groups who were there to protest?
>  
> What is the source for this?
>  
> I also do not agree what was stated that PL was anti-China (meaning against 
> the Chinese CP leadership).
> PL at the 1969 SDS Split SUPPORTED Mao and the Chinese Communist Party 
> leadership.  PL chanted Mao Mao Mao Tse Tung to respond to the RYM and others 
> who chanted Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh!
>  
> Again what is the source for your stating PL in June 1969 was anti-China?
>  
> I also do not agree with what you wrote about the differences of RYM I and 
> RYM II splitting.  It is not accurate in my opinion.  And what source can you 
> give me about RYM II having a demonstration of a thousand people at a multi 
> issue march at that period of time?  The RYM I demonstration in August 1969 
> on the First Anniversary of the Chicago 1968 Convention protests had less 
> than a thousand and RYM II was not larger then in membership than RYM I.  RYM 
> I lost supporters (such as myself) went it went underground and became the 
> Weath Underground.
>  
> Please let us have the source of this history you list - since I do want to 
> learn about that RYM II march and what date and where.  I will include in the 
> historical text I have assembled on progressive world history - but I need 
> the source and if any materials can be found to verify this - or people then 
> involved who can verify this.  I know many people in RYM I and RYM II still, 
> so just email me off the list if you do not want to state on this list the 
> sources for this information you listed.
>  
> Finally RYM II did not dissolve into local groups.  The alrgest faction as I 
> had wrote yesterday in my email - that you may want to more carefully read - 
> said that the majority of RYM II (after Klonsky and what became the OL left) 
> would become the RCP which still exists today and is NOT a local group!
>  
> Again, what is your source for this statement on RYM II just becoming local 
> groups?
>  
> Comradely,
>  
> John O'Brien> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:52:27 -0500> From: 
> ethanyoung@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Seymour/Ayers> To: 
> causecollector@xxxxxxx> > To add historical detail to this thread: > > By 
> 1969 the transformation of SDS --from a > free-wheeling, left-reformist group 
> closely > mirroring the development of [largely white] > student 
> radicalization, especially in the > northeast, west and midwest, into a 
> left-socialist > organization with organized factions strongly > identifying 
> with one or another Leninism--> was complete. The three main factions [PL, 
> RYM, > and the tiny third-camp ISC] all identified > with mass action 
> strategies, including in the antiwar> movement. > > SDS played a big role in 
> reviving mass demos> with the surprise success of their national> anti-Viet 
> war rally in 1965. That success,> and the mass spread of antiwar sentiment 
> [and SDS > growth] that followed, put a subjectivist kink in > the messianic 
> mindset of SDS leadership. This > inhibited the group's ability to come to 
> grips > with internal and external challenges:> > -The concerted and 
> ultimately successful rule-or-ruin> campaign by PL [successful because they 
> did effectively> out-organize other groups at the 1969 convention, > and then 
> went on to ruin their own half of the split].> > -The post-King massification 
> of black consciousness and > the mass ghetto uprisings, which led to new 
> black-led> revolutionary formations, including but not limited to> the 
> Panther Party, which in turn inspired similar groups> among Latino and Asian 
> youth.> > -Intensified state repression against the entire left, > from 
> infiltration to psy-ops to assassinations.> > In this setting, SDSers felt an 
> increased responsibility> for more militance, which mainly took the form of > 
> publicizing radical ideas and arguing how to incorporate> revolutionary 
> concepts into working class organizing. > Impatience over the seeming 
> inability of broad coalitions > to rein in the war turned into hostility 
> toward the main > organizers of mass demos - the CP, SWP, ex-SDSers, > 
> left/lib Democrats, and pacifists.> > The SDS national office opposed the 
> 1968 National > Mobilization Cmte and YIP protests as distractions from > 
> building a revolutionary movement, and as a trap that would > be met by 
> police violence. But the success of the DP convention> protests--even with 
> the violence--and the subsequent broadened> radicalization, convinced the 
> leadership [by 1968 held by> the RYM faction] to turn, not back to coalition 
> building,> but to calling their own, more militant, more all-sidedly> 
> anti-imperialist national protest for Summer 1969.> > The 1969 SDS convention 
> saw a split within the split as the > Weather faction formed within RYM, 
> which rejected mass> organizing, advocating 'exemplary violence' that would> 
> 'up the ante' for imperialism [actually for the movement]> and inspire a mass 
> violent offensive against the war and state > repression. > > The rest of RYM 
> strongly opposed this and split to > form RYM II, but agreed that a national 
> protest was top > priority, and that the single-issue antiwar movement was 
> passe. > Their goal was to link radicalized white youth with > the new 
> revolutionary groups forming in color communities, > mostly outside the 
> CP/SWP/PL Comintern tradition. They strongly> identified with the working 
> class as the historic agent of> revolution, like PL, while embracing the NLF, 
> the Panthers, > and Cuba as well as China, unlike PL.> > Two national actions 
> converged on Chicago in October 1969.> The better-known Weather action was a 
> silly putsch involving> about 200 full-timers, and a handful of sympathizers. 
> RYM II> brought at least 1000 more to a militant, but non-confrontational,> 
> multi-issue march. Both were tiny compared to any standard local> peace march 
> of the time.> > It should be noted that until the RYMs failed to draw numbers 
> to > Chicago, mass action strategy was taken for granted by all > concerned, 
> though some were deluded into thinking, even in that > moment of ferment, 
> that a multi-issue national action could be > rallied without a broad 
> coalition. Weatherman went into hiding > and pulled off some harmless revenge 
> bombings. RYM II dissolved > into local groups, leaving behind a nationwide 
> layer of socialist > organizers--conscious, maturing, but scattered.> > ey
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