[Marxism] Seymour/Ayers - rewriting history?

[John Obrien <causecollector@xxxxxxx>]

Ethan,
 
I do not agree with what you wrote below as to being accurate on SDS history.
 
The SDS did NOT oppose the Chicago August 1968 protests at the Democratic Party 
Convention.
Look at who were SDS members among the Chicago 8 Defendants - and see that SDS 
put out posters around that protest.  A number of SDSers may have politically 
opposed the National Mobilization Committee and some may have opposed YIP 
(Yippie) - but I do not remeber them urging their members to not protest the 
war and the other demands raised by SCLC the Black Panther PArty and other 
groups who were there to protest?
 
What is the source for this?
 
I also do not agree what was stated that PL was anti-China (meaning against the 
Chinese CP leadership).
PL at the 1969 SDS Split SUPPORTED Mao and the Chinese Communist Party 
leadership.  PL chanted Mao Mao Mao Tse Tung to respond to the RYM and others 
who chanted Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh!
 
Again what is the source for your stating PL in June 1969 was anti-China?
 
I also do not agree with what you wrote about the differences of RYM I and RYM 
II splitting.  It is not accurate in my opinion.  And what source can you give 
me about RYM II having a demonstration of a thousand people at a multi issue 
march at that period of time?  The RYM I demonstration in August 1969 on the 
First Anniversary of the Chicago 1968 Convention protests had less than a 
thousand and RYM II was not larger then in membership than RYM I.  RYM I lost 
supporters (such as myself) went it went underground and became the Weath 
Underground.
 
Please let us have the source of this history you list - since I do want to 
learn about that RYM II march and what date and where.  I will include in the 
historical text I have assembled on progressive world history - but I need the 
source and if any materials can be found to verify this - or people then 
involved who can verify this.  I know many people in RYM I and RYM II still, so 
just email me off the list if you do not want to state on this list the sources 
for this information you listed.
 
Finally RYM II did not dissolve into local groups.  The alrgest faction as I 
had wrote yesterday in my email - that you may want to more carefully read - 
said that the majority of RYM II (after Klonsky and what became the OL left) 
would become the RCP which still exists today and is NOT a local group!
 
Again, what is your source for this statement on RYM II just becoming local 
groups?
 
Comradely,
 
John O'Brien> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:52:27 -0500> From: 
ethanyoung@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Seymour/Ayers> To: 
causecollector@xxxxxxx> > To add historical detail to this thread: > > By 1969 
the transformation of SDS --from a > free-wheeling, left-reformist group 
closely > mirroring the development of [largely white] > student 
radicalization, especially in the > northeast, west and midwest, into a 
left-socialist > organization with organized factions strongly > identifying 
with one or another Leninism--> was complete. The three main factions [PL, RYM, 
> and the tiny third-camp ISC] all identified > with mass action strategies, 
including in the antiwar> movement. > > SDS played a big role in reviving mass 
demos> with the surprise success of their national> anti-Viet war rally in 
1965. That success,> and the mass spread of antiwar sentiment [and SDS > 
growth] that followed, put a subjectivist kink in > the messianic mindset of 
SDS leadership. This > inhibited the group's ability to come to grips > with 
internal and external challenges:> > -The concerted and ultimately successful 
rule-or-ruin> campaign by PL [successful because they did effectively> 
out-organize other groups at the 1969 convention, > and then went on to ruin 
their own half of the split].> > -The post-King massification of black 
consciousness and > the mass ghetto uprisings, which led to new black-led> 
revolutionary formations, including but not limited to> the Panther Party, 
which in turn inspired similar groups> among Latino and Asian youth.> > 
-Intensified state repression against the entire left, > from infiltration to 
psy-ops to assassinations.> > In this setting, SDSers felt an increased 
responsibility> for more militance, which mainly took the form of > publicizing 
radical ideas and arguing how to incorporate> revolutionary concepts into 
working class organizing. > Impatience over the seeming inability of broad 
coalitions > to rein in the war turned into hostility toward the main > 
organizers of mass demos - the CP, SWP, ex-SDSers, > left/lib Democrats, and 
pacifists.> > The SDS national office opposed the 1968 National > Mobilization 
Cmte and YIP protests as distractions from > building a revolutionary movement, 
and as a trap that would > be met by police violence. But the success of the DP 
convention> protests--even with the violence--and the subsequent broadened> 
radicalization, convinced the leadership [by 1968 held by> the RYM faction] to 
turn, not back to coalition building,> but to calling their own, more militant, 
more all-sidedly> anti-imperialist national protest for Summer 1969.> > The 
1969 SDS convention saw a split within the split as the > Weather faction 
formed within RYM, which rejected mass> organizing, advocating 'exemplary 
violence' that would> 'up the ante' for imperialism [actually for the 
movement]> and inspire a mass violent offensive against the war and state > 
repression. > > The rest of RYM strongly opposed this and split to > form RYM 
II, but agreed that a national protest was top > priority, and that the 
single-issue antiwar movement was passe. > Their goal was to link radicalized 
white youth with > the new revolutionary groups forming in color communities, > 
mostly outside the CP/SWP/PL Comintern tradition. They strongly> identified 
with the working class as the historic agent of> revolution, like PL, while 
embracing the NLF, the Panthers, > and Cuba as well as China, unlike PL.> > Two 
national actions converged on Chicago in October 1969.> The better-known 
Weather action was a silly putsch involving> about 200 full-timers, and a 
handful of sympathizers. RYM II> brought at least 1000 more to a militant, but 
non-confrontational,> multi-issue march. Both were tiny compared to any 
standard local> peace march of the time.> > It should be noted that until the 
RYMs failed to draw numbers to > Chicago, mass action strategy was taken for 
granted by all > concerned, though some were deluded into thinking, even in 
that > moment of ferment, that a multi-issue national action could be > rallied 
without a broad coalition. Weatherman went into hiding > and pulled off some 
harmless revenge bombings. RYM II dissolved > into local groups, leaving behind 
a nationwide layer of socialist > organizers--conscious, maturing, but 
scattered.> > ey
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