Re: [Marxism] Same Sex Marriage Gains Threatened in California

[Adam Richmond <adambrichmond@xxxxxxxxx>]

Non monogomy is perhaps the basis for divorce, but it is not on the marriage 
license application.

Civil marriage is progressive compared to church marriage.  Denial of civil 
marriage based on sexual orientation is antidemocratic.  The vast majority of 
homosexuals want the right to marry without restraint.  If Propostion 8 
succeeds, it will be a reversal of a right highly valued by the huge majority 
of gay people.  In fact the majority of all people in California appear to be 
ready to resist this obvious right wing assault.  But not David Thorstad.



--- On Mon, 9/15/08, David Thorstad <binesi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: David Thorstad <binesi@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Same Sex Marriage Gains Threatened in California
To: "Adam Richmond" <adambrichmond@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 7:41 AM

Adam Richmond wrote:
>
> Socialists oppose special privileges based on religious
> prejudices. Civil marriage should be a right for all regardless of gender.
====================================================================================
Why would any socialist support "civil marriage" as opposed to 
"religious marriage"? Why would a socialist (unless he or she is a 
social democratic socialist) not take a radical feminist as well as 
radical gay position and oppose state-sanctioned marriage? Marriage 
should be a private matter and the state has no business giving a 
blessing to couples over singles. Get the state out of the bedroom. Do 
not support special privileges for some at the expense of others 
(taxpayers who will have to subsidize coupledom benefits for same-sexers 
just as they presently do for hetero couples). If you're for equality, 
then all citizens should be equal before the state and society, 
regardless of their conjugal or marital relationships.
    Marriage is based on monogamy (a myth when it comes to the human 
animal, since it is virtually nonexistent among mammals, particularly 
the higher up one goes on the phylogenetic scale), and same-sex marriage 
represents an embrace of conventionality and conservatism and an aping 
of hetero norms. This article takes the liberal view of marriage, not a 
Marxist one. The demand for gay marriage is on the same level as the 
demand for same-sexers to join the imperialist military. It may be a 
form of discrimination not to let same-sexers marry, but that doesn't 
mean socialists should support marriage. And it doesn't make socialists 
who do any more progressive than the Republicans and Democrats who 
oppose it.
    Same-sex marriage is not a goal sought by all same-sexers, nor has 
it been a central goal for homosexuals for decades, as Richmond states. 
It is opposed by many radical homosexuals, though one would never know 
that by reading such a one-sided presentation. A defeat of same-sex 
marriage in California would not be a defeat for the working class or 
even of homosexuals as a whole. The entire campaign for marriage by 
same-sexers (I don't think bisexuals or transgenders play any role in 
this at all, so find it odd that the writer uses the "glbt" acronymn
to 
make it appear that this is a demand of more than a minority of mostly 
middle-class same-sexers) is misguided. You would think from reading 
this article that marriage has no downsides, but those are so obvious 
that it's not necessary to list them. What does such a pollyanna view 
have to do with a Marxist analysis of marriage, let alone a balanced 
view of gay liberation?
David
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