Re: [Marxism] Che Guevara - Myth and reality

[Kai <killakai@xxxxxxxxx>]

Perhaps the language was harsh and unclear, but if we are to look at Fidel,
and Chavez,
they are nationalists, who essentially represent the the left end of
Capitalist, liberal reformism. The
economy of Cuba and Venezuela aren't socialist in any meaningful way. Both
take very strong
stances against US imperialism, but that isnt exactly Marxist, the Taliban
opposes US imperialism as well.

If we are to look at them dialectically they have strengths, which ought to
be taken seriously as well. Certainly
they have made qualitative steps leftward, but Cuba isn't a socialist
country by a long shot. They are a state capitlalist
nation with socialized medicine and education, again, a qualitiative step to
the left, that would be revolutionary in a place like
the US, but it still isn't Socialism. Chavez hasn't taken things to Cuba's
level yet, but I'm still clear he's better than all of his predecessors.

I dont know if this seems like a crazy thing for me to say on here, when I
joined this list, people wer arguing over the merits of Obama,
which seemed completely bizarre, but I think its important to criticize even
the few nations who give us a glimmer of a better world like
Cuba and Venezuela.

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 4:00 PM, S. Artesian <sartesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Seriously interested in 2 way discussions?  I doubt it.  You provide
> nothing
> but jingoism.  Not a shred of concrete analysis.  Che a nationalist
> gangster?  Chavez a nationalist gangster?  That's rich.
> And very very conducive to intensive analysis and discussion.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nikolai Beltov" <beltov1895@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <sartesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Che Guevara - Myth and reality
>
>
>
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