Re: [Marxism] U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people

[David Walters <dwalters@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I believe Joaquin has built himself a little dispotian house of cards. 
Let's do away with the BS first of all: the silly, and totally 
anti-Marxist view that the US "everyone has a pathology" nonsense. I 
think Joaquin's view of this is largely buttressed by the fact that the 
US has a huge gun ownership, legal and illegal, so therefore that IS the 
pathology, and we don't want socio-paths running around with guns. I 
think Joaquin is trying to use a little circular logic. No, Joaquin, I 
don't agree with your subjective view that "GIVEN that the United States 
is a sociopathic country..."Blah, blah, blah. In your narrow view of the 
world, maybe.

The US has a murder rate of about 7 per 100,000. Our gun ownership 
(estimated, very estimated) is, someone noted, 90 guns for 100 people. 
Of course don't be fooled, this doesn't mean 90,000 people have guns for 
every 100,000 people, rather it means, in FACT, that some people have 
LOTS of guns. I haven't been able to find of those 7 people, how many 
were murdered by guns. And, to be fair, a lot of guns are used in crimes 
*anyway* and never fired (can't find those stats either, maybe some body 
better than I at internet researching can find this) and many ARE used 
and only injuries are occurred or the shooter misses.

At any rate, Brazil, which has a far worse drug problem and problem with 
crimes of violence  than the US by far has a murder rate of almost 19, 
exactly 250% MORE than the US and with far more draconian gun laws and 
it seems to mean *nothing*. Oh, yeah, gun ownership, estimated, is far 
less than the US. So Brazil, with it's "sociopthay" on display a lot 
more than the US has gun control and, of course, it doesn't work.

Mexico is another case in point where it's totally illegal to even own a 
gun over .22 caliber (very small, almost useless in most crimes, of any 
sort, to use). Can't carry one, can't shoot one except for hunting and 
an almost totally disarmed civilian population. Murder rate: 17 per 
100,000. So much for gun control.

The lesson is that murder-by-gun has almost nothing to do with gun 
ownership. The fact that many of the gun-toting lobbyists for the 
far-right have seized on these facts only makes Joaquin's view more sad, 
and, irrelevant.

I'm FOR gun control (registration, background checks, psch tests, and 
even mandatory training to get a permit). I'm against gun banning 
because its really the non-Marxist liberal feel-good approach to their 
fear of crime-on-the-street and has little to do to with reality. I 
think murder by gun wouldn't drop a decimal point of such a ban went 
into effect, which is what most gun-control *organizations* are in fact 
after.

Lastly, it's true I don't use, won't use, the silly "but we're all gonna 
need guns one day to deal with The Man" fantasy lefty-feel good 
syndrome. Old timers in the SWP I knew, who did carry guns, comrades now 
long passed, used to laugh at such silliness. Because it'll be the 
masses and the army recruits who are already armed that will come over 
to our side if we even need it. Interestingly they carried them for self 
protection because in the real world, being a socialist isn't going to 
save your ass if you are forced to live in a drug and crime ridden 
neighborhood. I will always argue that people have a right to *try* to 
defend themselves without having to wait for the revolution to do away 
with violent crime, or, rely on the forces of state repression when you 
call 911.(now that would be an interesting discussion, don't you think: 
should you call the cops if you are attacked?). Joaquin would like to 
put this down to the racist "Willy Horton" syndrome. I would ask that 
Joaquin inquire politely among Blacks he knows their attitude on gun 
ownership. I can give you my own experience on this question among Black 
workers and the answer, BTW, is unanimous.

There is ONLY a material and political answer to murder by guns and the 
sickness in all capitalist societies, and gun 'banning' isn't it.

Peace,
David


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