Re: [Marxism] reaching out to the far right II (response to BobHopson)

["Fred Feldman" <ffeldman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sayan submitted and commented:

 

On 6/10/07, Walter Lippmann <walterlx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 
> Parent do murder their children, but no Marxist would argue for any
> RIGHT to do that. Frustrated parents and spouses have been known to
> think about killing children or their partners, but for someone on
> a supposedly-Marxist list to actually write such a thing with any
> alleged seriousness means that the person is mocking the discussion.
 
Notice that someone could make an exactly  similar argument, that even
though many pregnant women have been known to think about aborting
their fetus, and many have actually done that, for someone on a
supposedly-Marxist list to actually suggest such a thing is terrible,
etc, etc.
> 
> Any child can survive without their mother. After all, children have
> been known to survive child-birth when their mothers die during the
> process. Other adults can feed and nurture them, though there's no
> substitute for the actual mother of any particular child.
 
I was responding to Joaquin, who said that "an embryo is not capable
of sustaining life  independently". The key word is "independently". I
was pointing out that a  baby, too, is unable of sustaining life
"independently", much as an embryo. (Humans are one of the few species
in which the young remain dependent on adults for a relatively long
time).
 
 

Sayan, you are indulging in a pure and simple anti-abortion argument on this
list, whether or not you agree with the "thought experiment" you are
carrying out.  Just like with your criticism (or "thought experiment")
against open borders re immigration, this is an area where we don't debate.
If you are for abortion rights, you should be helping us counter your
extremely abstract arguments, in case you are genuinely convinced that your
arguments have not been satisfactorily responded to.

 

If you are actually opposed to abortion rights - and this is a fundamental
issue for women and has been for a long, long time, and not just in the
imperialist countries - then you should take this argument somewhere else,
where this debate takes place.  We've been through this one many times.

 

If you really don't have an opinion yourself, I don't see why you are
bothering to attack everybody else's on this issue.  Do you think all the
class struggle experience we have with this is irrelevant and only your
"thought experiments" are valid.  That is your right, but the issue of pro
or con abortion rights is settled on this list.

 

If you are simply playing word games on this issue to confront people with
alleged logical conundrums, then you should take your phenomenological
methodology to another issue where it might play a useful role. 

 

On this  issue, this list (representing a lot of practical experience by
list members,personally and in struggle)  supports the unconditional of
women  to choose abortion and every member of this list opposes infanticide.
(The fact that anyone can get up and claim that the two are identical is
beside the point - the very fact that the distinction has been made, not
only biologically, but historically, is decisive).   And the right of women
to have abortions has been shown in life to be linked to the right of women
to bear children (no forced sterilizations, no compulsory abortions, etc.)
for reproductive rights.  I strongly suggest you can make no headway with
this thought experiment  on this front.  LET GO.

Fred

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