Re: [Marxism] Zimbabwe media

[Patrick Bond <pbond@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

SW Radio Africa Transcript

Home Affairs Minister Kembo Mohadi & Opposition Official Grace Kwinjeh

The guests on the programme Hot Seat are an unlikely pair: Home Affairs 
Minister Kembo Mohadi and opposition official Grace Kwinjeh. Grace was 
among the group of opposition leaders who were arrested and tortured 
while in police custody four weeks ago. But despite overwhelming video 
and picture evidence showing brutalised activists, the minister denies this.

Broadcast Tues 10 April 2007
Violet Gonda: My guest on the programme Hot Seat today is Grace Kwinjeh 
the Deputy Secretary for International Relations in the Tsvangirai MDC. 
She was among the group of opposition leaders who were arrested and 
tortured while in police custody four weeks ago and she’s currently in 
South Africa for medical treatment. Welcome on the programme Grace.

Grace Kwinjeh: Thank-you.

Violet: Now Grace, before we start I just wanted to play for you and 
also for our listeners an interview that I did with Kembo Mohadi, Monday 
evening. I asked him to comment about the attacks that are taking place 
in Zimbabwe right now and this is what happened.

Kembo Mohadi: Hello

Violet: Hello, Minister Mohadi?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Yes

Violet: Hello Minister, my name is Violet; I’m calling from SW Radio Africa

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Where?

Violet: From SW Radio Africa

Minister Kembo Mohadi: What can I do for you Madam?

Violet: Minster I wanted to find out from you or to get a comment from 
you about the allegations from the MDC that a lot of their activists are 
getting arrested and tortured in custody. And, as the Home Affairs 
Minister, I wanted to find out or to get your comment on this.

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No we don’t arrest anybody and torture people 
here in Zimbabwe . We arrest criminals and even if they are terrorist 
criminals we don’t torture them. The law takes its own course, if 
someone has got a case to answer he goes to Court and he is convicted. 
Those allegations are false.

Violet: But Minister Mohadi these MDC leaders and activists have 
actually appeared in Court covered in blood. So how can you explain this?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Ah no, when was that?

Violet: How can you explain this?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: When was that? When was that? When did they 
appear in Court covered in blood? That is a wrong statement. When was it?

Violet: The MDC…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: did you see them covered in blood?

Violet: Morgan Tsvangirai…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Did you see them covered in blood?

Violet: MorganTsvangirai appeared on TV

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Ah no

Violet: He was seen on TV

Minister Kembo Mohadi: He was not even covered in blood. That’s a lie. 
You come to Zimbabwe and witness this for yourself and don’t be talking 
about things that you don’t know. And we don’t ban people from coming to 
Zimbabwe . Why do you have to listen to CNN and Sky News and BBC? Come 
to Zimbabwe and see for yourself and report correctly.

Violet: But Minister Mohadi you know that….

Sound of the phone line going dead

Violet: Hello? Hello? And we lost connection with the Home Affairs 
Minister Kembo Mohadi, but I called him back and this is what happened.

Violet: Minister we must have got cut off?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Yes, I said come to Zimbabwe and report correctly 
man! We are bombed by the MDC, they are involved in terrorist activities 
and you don’t report about that! We’ve got a lot of them in custody, 
we’ve got a lot of them that are going on trial and have been remanded 
by our Courts. And they are possessing arms of war and you don’t report 
about that. I say come to Zimbabwe and see for yourself man! We don’t 
ban you from coming. You come to Zimbabwe you can see it for yourself 
other than to report from hearsay. I don’t want to be talking to people 
that get these things from hearsay.

Violet: But that’s why I’m talking to you direct so that we can hear it 
from you

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No, no, no, you are talking to me directly over 
the phone. Come to Zimbabwe and report correctly!

Violet: But you know that SW Radio Africa is banned in Zimbabwe ?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: What ban? You come to me, I’m the Minister of 
Home Affairs and say you want to come and report then you, you you will 
cover the story that you want, other than talking. I don’t want to be 
talking to you about rumours please; please can you please leave it alone

Violet: But that’s why I’m talking to you

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No, no, no, can you please leave me alone. 
There’s nothing like that. I’ve told you that everything is false so 
what else do you want?

Violet: You have said that journalists can come to Zimbabwe , but how 
many journalists have been arrested?

Kembo Mohadi: Yeah why don’t you come to Zimbabwe if you, you know who 
has been arrested?

Violet: Wasn’t there a journalist Gift Phiri, an independent journalist 
who was arrested last week?

Kembo Mohadi: Who is that? Who has been arrested?

Violet: Gift Phiri is a journalist that’s actually at the Avenues Clinic 
right now

Kembo Mohadi: Ya but you come to Zimbabwe

Violet: Receiving treatment after he was brutalised by the police

Kembo Mohadi: No you’ve got to, if you come to Zimbabwe you’ve got to 
register, you’ve got to report that you are a journalist, you are 
accredited. Don’t just come and report when you are not accredited. 
Whether you are a freelance or what you get accredited man. We are a 
sovereign country here. You can’t just come and do things as if you are 
on a picnic.

Violet: So are you saying…?

Minis ter Kembo Mohadi: We must know what; we must know that you are in 
Zimbabwe and that you are reporting for that and that paper.

Violet: Minister Mohadi: there are several journalists who…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Rumour spreader, why do you, why, why ….

Violet: There are several journalists who have been assaulted

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Now there is no journalist that is in jail here 
in Zimbabwe, can you come tomorrow, fly tomorrow and then phone me, 
phone me on Wednesday because tomorrow I’m in Cabinet and fly in and 
come and identify a journalist that is in prison here or that is…

Violet: Gift Phiri is one journalist

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Ya you come and show me. There is no one of that 
sort, that is…

Violet: He was released just a few days ago

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No, no, that’s not true, that’s not true, that’s 
not true. That’s not true.

Violet: So what is the truth?

Minster Kembo Mohadi: No, there is nothing. I’m saying that’s all false, 
we don’t...

Violet: What about Edward Chikomba the ZBC cameraman who was murdered 
last week?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: He was murdered by who? Was he murdered by the 
police?

Violet: But is your government investigating to find out who…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Was he murdered by the police?

Violet : He was abducted in the same way that several opposition 
activists have been abducted

Minister Kembo Mohadi : Was he… Abducted by who? By who?

Violet: By members of the state security agency

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Abducted by who? Who? Oh no, can you tell me 
that? Can you come and

Violet: So is your government going to investigate to find…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No come and look, ah please can you, if you don’t 
want to talk to me stop giving me false accusations, ah please OK?

Violet: Minister do you understand that…

Minister Kembo Mohadi: No, no, no I don’t want to talk to you

Violet: Minister do you understand that Zimbabweans are frustrated with 
their daily struggles right now?

Minister Kembo Mohadi: Hey! Hey Hey Hey! Shut up!

Sound of the phone line going dead

Violet: But as a Minister, how can you even say that?

Sound of the phone line going dead again

Violet: And the Minister hung up again for the second time and when I 
tried to call him for the third time he would not pick up his phone. Now 
Grace, can you comment on this?

Grace Kwinjeh: I think it’s such a tragedy for our country to have 
politicians of such a calibre. Politicians who do not think they have to 
be made accountable for their actions. Politicians who take journalists 
or the media for granted, who take the listeners of SW Radio Africa for 
granted. I think it’s really sad but that is part of the whole problem 
we have in Zimbabwe now, of a ZANU PF leadership that does not think 
that it has to account to anybody; its own people, the region, or the 
broader international community. So everything they do is with impunity.

Violet: Right, now before we go to your experience or what happened to 
you, Minister Kembo Mohadi said that there are no journalists that are 
currently in detention and I gave him an example of Gift Phiri who was 
detained last week and he was tortured and he actually received 
treatment in a hospital in Harare . And then, is it not a fact that 
there is another journalist, Luke Tamborinyoka who is now the MDC’s 
Media and Information Officer who is currently in detention right now?

Grace Kwinjeh: Yes, apart from Luke I can tell you that when we were 
arrested on the 11 th March we had two journalists with us. We had you 
know the photo journalist Tsvangirai Mukwazhi and another Reuters 
journalist who were tortured for the specific reason that they were 
journalists. There was nothing else, their torturers identified them as 
journalists who were taking pictures, who were reporting, and tortured 
them for that. So the brutal assaults on them, which I saw, which I 
witnessed, are something that you know I think it’s laughable for the 
Home Affairs Minister to deny that exists. We know journalists are being 
hunted, haunted in Zimbabwe . We know that they are being tortured and 
we know that they are being killed.

Violet: And then also coming to Opposition officials and activists who 
are being arrested and tortured right now. Now you are one of them, one 
of the Opposition officials that was arrested just recently. Can you 
tell us what happened to you after you were arrested because the 
Minister denies that Opposition officials and activists were tortured in 
custody?

Grace Kwinjeh: We were tortured at Machipisa police station in the fence 
outside the cells for about four hours by different members of the State 
Agents. There were CIO’s, there were officials from the Army, there were 
Riot Police and War Veterans. They all took turns to do whatever they 
could do to us, from beating us up with baton sticks to punches, to 
being danced on. Mrs Sekai Holland for instance had one official, a 
woman War Veteran, dance on her and call her ‘whore’ and all sorts of 
things. So it cannot be denied that we went through such a horrific 
experience in the hands of State Agents at Highfields Police Station. 
And, after that, I was also tortured in the cells and there are 
witnesses to this in full view of police officials by army officials. 
That was on the morning of the 12 th of March. And, the Officer who was 
in charge there at Braeside Police Station, his name is Makore. So 
again, that’s something real that happened and there are witnesses. And, 
apart from the witnesses, we have wounds, visible wounds that we are 
being treated for.

Violet: That’s what I wanted to find out from you

Grace Kwinjeh: Sekai Holland broke three ribs, broke an arm, broke a 
leg. I have internal head injuries, I have soft tissue injuries. And you 
know you saw Dr Lovemore Madhuku, you saw President Morgan Tsvangirai, 
Nelson Chamisa we know what happened to him, even after the 11 th March, 
what happened to him at Harare International Airport.

Violet: So in your case, what sort of treatment are you receiving? I 
understand you are in the same hospital with 64 year old Amai Holland, 
what treatment is she also receiving if you know?

Grace Kwinjeh: Well, a lot of treatment that includes a lot of therapy 
because what we went through this is really a nightmare and part of what 
we are receiving is therapy, de-briefing for us to get – to deal with 
the trauma. And, we are also receiving specialised treatment. For 
instance, for me it’s the internal head injuries. In Zimbabwe you know 
they could only scan that I had a swollen brain but did not have the 
right technology to deal with these. So here again there’s the right 
technology for them to deal with the head injuries and the dizziness 
that I’m suffering from. Mrs Holland has had two operations so far and 
she still can’t walk by the way. She is still bed ridden.

Violet: And in your article recently entitled the ‘Woman in Me’ you said 
you did not cry or beg for mercy and that none of the other victims on 
that day when you were arrested on the 11 th March cried or begged for 
mercy or denounced the Party or in any way tried to negotiate a way out 
of being brutalised. Now, was this position planned beforehand?

Grace Kwinjeh: Was this?

Violet: was this position planned beforehand that people would not cry 
and you know…?

Grace Kwinjeh: No, everyone was, didn’t know they would get tortured. 
You don’t plan torture, none of the people there knew or felt or even 
could foresaw that we could get tortured. The least we knew was that we 
would be arrested. The torture and the shock that came with that torture 
was amazing but not crying really was this just extraordinary strength 
that just overcomes you. I think it’s just something that comes from God 
you know because these people are really brutalising you, you know, they 
want to kill, you know the things that they are doing to you. But, it’s 
amazing that of the people who were there, the more than thirty of us, 
none of the people, everyone just withstood the pain because they would 
take turns around people, especially around the leadership. If they call 
up Sekai Holland then they are beating her non stop, then Lovemore 
Madhuku, Grace Kwinjeh, Morgan Tsvangirai and so on. But you know you 
just get an extraordinary strength from God. You know something just 
makes you look at evil in its eye, and you just look at it and bear it 
and of course they did beat us up like that.

Violet: What did they use when they were beating you and can you 
identify the attackers?

Grace Kwinjeh: Yes, I saw two of them in Court when we were in Court 
later on, on the 13 th March. But they were using all sorts of weapons. 
I was beaten up, for instance parts of my ear came off, they were using 
a metal bar about a metre long. You know, a metal bar on my head. That’s 
really attempted murder. And I couldn’t even see that part of my ear was 
off until much later when they were secretly transferring us from 
Machipisa to Harare Central Police Station. So I was bleeding from the 
head, and I thought it’s my head bleeding and then later I touched and I 
felt this thing sticking out of my ear and it turns out that part of my 
ear was off. So they were using all sorts of weapons even army belts and 
then kicks. You know the woman who danced on Sekai Holland was wearing 
these thick winter boots so you know this was something they had planned 
in advance. It’s hot in Zimbabwe right now, we’re in the height of 
summer and you know she’s in these thick, thick long winter boots, the 
ones you get in the United Kingdom with fur inside. And, she is dancing 
on Sekai, she danced on William Bango’s head. So

Violet : Did these people look like they were intoxicated because you 
can imagine Amai Sekai Holland is, as I said before, 64 years old, and 
you can tell that she’s a grandmother? Now you know when this woman, 
this other woman was dancing on top of her and beating her like this, 
did they look like people who were sober, you know, who really knew what 
they were doing?

Grace Kwinjeh: It’s not about them being sober but it’s about it, I 
think, representing the kind of ZANU PF politics that we have to deal 
with in Zimbabwe . The level of intolerance, the level of brutality when 
a regime or a political party is challenged. You know what, the kind of 
venom you get from ZANU PF politicians, what you got now from Kembo 
Mohadi, that event there just crystallised all that, just shows you what 
ZANU PF is and what it stands for.

Violet: And also Grace you wrote in your article, and I quote and you 
said ‘and so, as is the case too often in Opposition politics, the 
attack on us women was more on our sexuality’. Now what do you mean by this?

Grace Kwinjeh: Yes because it was about our bums, the colour of my hair 
and different things, being called whores and so on or the husbands, the 
colour of husbands we have chosen to marry, as in the case of Sekai 
Holland. But none of the male colleagues were assaulted or insulted in 
that way. For them it was really political, so if they were beating up 
Lovemore Madhuku it’s because he’s leading NCA demos and etc. So, the 
attack on women, you know, the way rape is used as a weapon. Look at 
what is happening to women in Sudan for instance. Look at what happens 
in war situations, the way rape has often been used as an instrument. 
It’sthe way you know the ZANU PF thugs were using our sexuality against us.

Violet: So do you believe that you were brutalised and treated in this 
way mainly because you are a woman?

Grace Kwinjeh : Yeah

Violet: I mean do you mean there’s a campaign of violence directed 
against women by the Mugabe regime.

Grace Kwinjeh: Yes. But then, that kind of violence when they call you 
whores and so on, is also characteristic you know of the misogynistic 
nature of our environment. The intolerance against women, especially 
women who come out in leadership or in the public sphere, women who are 
challenging certain things about the society. And the only way the male 
colleagues can deal with you is by calling you ‘whore’, then you are 
finished, you have to shut up. And, unfortunately that kind of politics 
is not in ZANU PF alone but you find it even in Opposition politics, you 
find it even with fellow male journalists, you find it everywhere. The 
only way to silence a woman is by calling her a ‘hure’ (whore) and on 
this day unfortunately it was in such a violent and brutal manner which 
was really terrible.

Violet: And you know, in a way violence against women goes against our 
culture and what boys are taught by their parents. Now, it may sound 
like a repetition but do you believe that the Mugabe regime has to use 
particular people like psychopaths or youths high on drink and drugs to 
commit acts of violence against women in this particular case?

Grace Kwinjeh: Yes, I think for them to perpetrate that kind of violence 
they have to be intoxicated by something and you could see after the 
four hours the heart beating. You could see later on at Harare Central 
Police Station for instance when some of them started to sober up, you 
could see that they were really afraid of what they had done. And that’s 
the unfortunate bit of it, that they are used at that moment and once 
that really – I feel sorry for the youth, the 16 year olds, 18 year 
olds, 20 year old youth who are involved in the militia who are given 
drugs and they carry out these acts of violence, these unlawful acts of 
violence and then later on they have to face the consequences.

Violet: So what was going through your mind when this was happening?

Grace Kwinjeh: Nothing. You just look at them. Nothing you know, nothing 
happens, you freeze, everything in you freezes temporarily. And for me, 
I was tortured on that day and then later on they came to torture me 
again in the cells. Nothing happens. You know, it’s one of those moments 
that you just stop thinking and look at evil, like I said.

Violet: Now you have made enormous sacrifices, both physical and 
material, leaving your young family to fight for change in Zimbabwe . Do 
you wish now that you had taken an easier path?

Grace Kwinjeh: No, not at all, not at all. I think the struggle 
continues and I think many of the comrades who are in the struggle, many 
of the comrades I was told that those who are in remand who have been 
denied bail are actually in high spirits. There’s something about it 
Violet, when you are there Violet and you are feeling it and going 
through it, there’s something about it that just gives you enormous 
strength and that just tells you that God is on your side. And so, I 
don’t regret it at all, I think that it’s really my fate or my destiny, 
I had to go, that’s why I had to go back to Zimbabwe, I had to be part 
of the leadership at this phase of our political history. And I think 
it’s an important phase because it’s going to lead us somewhere and I 
think that’s why the regime is panicking.

Violet: And just before you left for South Africa with Mai Sekai Holland 
you had been released, you know, to a hospital under Riot Police guard 
and then you were arrested again whilst trying to leave the country to 
go for urgent medical treatment in South Africa . How do you interpret 
the actions of the government then and were you very afraid when you 
were being denied that chance or that right to leave the country for 
treatment?

Grace Kwinjeh: Yeah it’s scary, it’s really scary. What they did is, we 
were in a MARS Ambulance, so they actually let us get all the way to the 
airport and it was at the airport that they turned us back. First we had 
stopped at Harare Central Police station where our lawyers were talking 
to them trying to negotiate that we had to leave and that there were no 
charges against us. If you remember that the State could not present its 
case to the Magistrates’ Court so there were no charges, everybody was 
free. But then, we were told ‘no, that was not the case’ So we were 
brought back under police guard, we had to sleep with Riot Police in 
front of us with guns and having been tortured, you imagine that the 
people who tortured you are there in front of you and you are trying to 
sleep. So it’s a very nasty traumatic experience which I hope never to 
go through again in my life. So we had them on 24 hour guard from Sunday 
up to Wednesday. And then on Wednesday when we managed to get a Court 
Order that we could leave the country that is when they left and on 
Wednesday night we managed to sleep well.

Violet Gonda: And Grace what about the issue of the way forward? What 
are your views concerning the regional initiative to bring the political 
parties together?

Grace Kwinjeh: I think that’s good for the political parties together. 
In any war situation, time comes when the warring parties have to get 
together and come up with a settlement. But, what needs to be understood 
are the basis upon which those parties are coming together and what they 
have to come up with. We have had the experience of 2000, we’ve had the 
experience of 2002, we’ve had you know numerous experiences where ZANU 
PF will pretend to be doing something, you know to be negotiating in 
good faith and yet on the other hand they are in reverse gear to what’s 
being discussed or what is getting agreed upon. So, I think that this 
time round, and the use of violence as a negotiating tool, I think that 
is wrong. Because what Mugabe is doing now, he is saying OK I’m going to 
abduct, I’m going to arrest, I’m going to kill as many people so by the 
time these folks come and people come round the table you are 
negotiating and three journalists get killed, not five. You are 
negotiating that 15 journalists get arrested not 30 and negotiating that 
the Opposition be allowed to hold rallies under POSA when we know POSA 
is wrong. So what they are basically doing is raising the tempo so that 
at the end of the day whatever we get as Zimbabweans, we are so 
desperate that we say yes this is what we want. But that is wrong.

We want what is basic. We want internationally accepted norms and 
standards of democratic practice. We don’t want you know, mediocrity, 
the kind of mediocrity that we’ve been having in Zimbabwe since 2000. 
I’m here in South Africa ; they are enjoying certain things freely like 
that. There is an article, for instance, in one of the newspapers today; 
there is a woman who is complaining that she got her passport after six 
weeks. This is a passport after six weeks; the public is outraged. In 
Zimbabwe having a passport has now become a privilege. So we are saying 
in Zimbabwe we want to live well like in other countries in the region 
and other countries internationally. But butchering us into succumbing 
is really wrong and I hope that President Mbeki this time round realises 
that no, we have to have certain solid understanding of what we want to 
achieve. Otherwise, like the efforts in 2000 and 2002 nothing much is 
going to be achieved.

Violet Gonda: Thank you very much Grace Kwinjeh.

Grace Kwinjeh: Thank you

Audio interview can be heard on SW Radio Africa ’s Hot Seat programme 
(Tues 10 April 2007 ). Comments and feedback can be emailed to 
violet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>

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