Re: [Marxism] The ISO in Zimbabwe

[DCQ <deeseekyou@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Lou,

Perhaps you don't realize how absolutely fucking pompous and 
condescending you sound. Also, you might want to think about the image 
of an aging white male sitting in his Columbia University cubicle in 
New York City lecturing genuine African revolutionaries dealing with 
physical intimidation by the police and ZANU-PF thugs, harassment by 
MDC officials, a government crack down on dissent, and--oh yeah--the 
continuing disintegration of a viable economic and social life.

Of course, no one should be above criticism. But--at least in my 
estimation--the ISO in Zimbabwe have succeeded far more than any other 
revolutionary Marxist group in the world in recent years. Their 
experience is something to analyze and learn from, not piss on because 
our latte was too foamy.

On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Louis Proyect wrote:

> For example, they characterize Mugabe as a fascist, which is pretty 
> ill-conceived from a Marxist perspective.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

> While googling around, I discovered that Callinicos is from Zimbabwe 
> originally. Maybe that played a role in getting something off the 
> ground there. It is really pretty amazing (or maybe not so amazing) 
> that the Cliffites have not a single Third World section except in 
> Zimbabwe.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. The Blogspot page 
you referenced in the original post has, right at the very top, 
information about "sections" in South Africa, Ghana, and Botswana. Of 
course, the precise meaning of "third world" is up for debate now, but 
the IS Tendency also has open groups in Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, 
South Korea, Thailand, and Uruguay. As others have mentioned, it 
doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with reasons that other 
groups in other countries might not want their info published on the 
web, however inconvenient that is for you.

On top of that, it is clear from this criticism that you are not 
seriously trying to be constructively critical and help the Zim 
comrades in their desperate situation, but merely slinging sectarian 
shit. On the one hand, you criticize them for being "vanguardists," 
then criticize the IST for not having more of them. Maybe they don't 
have more groups because they are actually trying to build genuine 
groups and not taking shortcuts by sending out "colonists." I don't 
know if that's true or not, but then again, neither do you.

> Btw, differences over Zimbabwe led to a split in their international 
> movement: http://www.angelfire.com/journal/iso/

Let me repeat myself, you have no idea what you're talking about. If 
anything, the ISO-Z almost kept the ISO-US from being expelled.


On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:49 PM, Louis Proyect wrote:

> Norm wrote:
> > I find it it a little hard to fathom what exactly has prompted 
> > Comrade Proyect's vicious but petty sectarian outburst towards the 
> > courageous comrades of the Zimbabwean ISO.
>
> I am opposed to small proprietorship mentality everywhere in the 
> world, especially in places that are in an acute stage of the class 
> struggle.

And on what do you base your claims that the ISO-Z has a "small 
proprietorship mentality"? (Have you met them and talked with them? 
Have you read their literature? Have you discussed strategies and 
tactics with them?)

Lou, the best thing you can do right now is admit you were engaging in 
some petty sectarian shit-slinging, and encourage other list members to 
avoid falling back into bad habits in the future.

-DCQ (like Patrick Bond, not in the IST either)


[Off Topic]
> I just finished reading 3000 pages of background material on the Cuban 
> revolution in order to answer Sam Farber. The thought of Fidel Castro 
> following the organizational model of self-declared vanguards like the 
> DSP or the ISO is too depressing to consider.

So why exactly are other political parties outlawed then? [/Off Topic]


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