Re: [Marxism] Marxmailistas, "No, No, No" and the politics of why can't we all just get along.

[Walter Lippmann <walterlx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Readers might get the impression this is some sort of game of "speed
chess", the kind that's played with a timer, with the demands being
made on others to say what their position is, but no matter. 

Novack was my first teacher of dialectics. I remember those classes
on AN INTRODUCTION TO THE LOGIC OF MARXISM in which we went
over the business of A=A, A does not equal Not-A, and whether or
not a tree makes a sound in the forest if someone is there to hear it
and so forth. Formal logic demands, as David Walters does, that we
declare China capitalist, socialist or a workers state. Alas, the reality
is more complex than that. There are intermediate possibilities since
pure types and pure forms only exists in textbooks. Well, I suppose
for some here the Bolshevik Revolution of October 1917 was a pure
form realized in actual life. 

China today is a bureaucratically deformed workers state, David. So,
roughly using Trotsky's approach to the USSR as a broad parameter,
it's a contradictory society in which the government, a privileged
bureaucratic layer, straddles between the interests of the working
class and peasant majority of the country and the growing capitalist
layer. It similarly defends the national interests of the Chinese
state against the interests of international capitalism.

I've written that many times, though some evidently haven't noticed.
Capitalism has made many inroads, but does not, yet, control the
army and the national financial system. On the international side,
China still plays a positive role, assisting Cuba circumvent the U.S.
blockade, assisting Venezuela with an alternate market for oil should
Washington decided to stop the purchase of oil from the Bolivarian
republic, and by its generally acting to restrain Washington's
bellicosity to the extent that is possible via diplomacy.

China's historical place in the world, in human civilization, seems to
have eluded those so despearte to brand China capitalist. I'm still
not sure why this urgency is so strong. Most Marxmailistas, as far
as I'm aware, live in capitalist countries. Perhaps is just a matter of
"misery loves company"? I simply do not understand. Fidel Castro
gave a good account of China's place in history, at least from his
own point of view, not so long ago. I recommend it to everyone:
http://www.walterlippmann.com/fc-china.html

The urgency, indeed the desperation with which some Marxmailistas
DEMAND that China be branded capitalist is alarming, since Marxmail
is, as it can only be, a discussion forum, a place where ideas ought
to be discussed and clarified. It isn't and cannot be an organization.
There are no rules, no dues, no meetings. All we can do is try to be
open-minded enough to listen and learn from one another. Nothing
else is possible in a forum of this type, unless I have missed it.

Will capitalism prevail in the long run? That is possible, it's entirely
possible. Russia is today a capitalist country as most readers of
Marxmail would probably agree. Russia, also, and for its own national
reasons, for its own both national and capitalist reasons, also helps
Cuba prevent Washington's blockade from strangling the island...

Let us suppose, just for the sake of argument, that I granted your
wish, that I conceded to your demand to brand China as capitalist.
What would you do with the victory? What would be different in 
the world we live in? Why is it so urgent, so important, for those
demanding this, that China be branded a capitalist country?

Why? Why? Why?


Walter Lippmann
Los Angeles

=======================================
DAVID WALTERS INQUIRED:
I would like to know if Walter, assuming he would condensend 
to opine on this, thinks China is still a workers state, or perhaps, a
socialist one, or, perhaps, has now gone over to capitalism? Does he
think that the govt (given that govt's rest on a class ruling over
another class) is there to defend socialist property or to destroy
it. I use such stark terms as 'destroy' because that is what appears
to be happening there.




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