[Marxism] Theory of Dems as consistent deceivers of the U.S. working class is a conspiracy theory

["Charles Brown" <cbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mike Friedman 

You are defining "conspiracy" so broadly as to make the term 
meaningless. Deceit = conspiracy? In class society, in which a 
wealthy and powerful minority lord it over the producing majority, 
EVERYTHING can be construed as "conspiracy."

^^^^
CB: First you say I define conspiracy broadly. Then you say everything can
be construed as a conspiracy. Sounds like you are defining it pretty
broadly.

I didn't say everything in class society is a conspiracy. I said one very
specific theory on the U.S. Democratic Party is a conspiracy theory. I
didn't say anything was wrong with the theory, or that it was non-Marxist
because it's a conspiracy theory.

I actually grapple with the truth of said conspiracy theory of the U.S.
Democratic Party. I don't totally accept it, but they seem to intentionally
fuckup in order to lose to the Reps a lot in the last twenty years. Or at
the very least, as Carrol says, they won't take a fight to a point of
threatening the system. They will sacrifice working class interests in order
to avoid crisis for the system. It is hard for me to let them off on the
excuse that they don't know what they are doing. I gotta presume they intend
the necessary and forseeable consequences of their actions, at a certain
point.

 There _is_ a big problem with the degeneration of the political
consciousness of much of the American people in this period.

Actually, I think the Dems are pinned in by their anti-Communism from the
Cold War era. Without communist arguments, there are no winning arguments
against the rightwing, ultimately.

^^^^^


 I'm quite sure that the 
Democrats use whatever means they can to win over and hold onto their
traditional constituency.

^^^^
CB; However, it's not working. They been losing a significant chunk of their
traditional constituency. So, they are doing a self-sacrifice
for...capitalism. It's sort of a political suicide conspiracy.

^^^^^^

 Again, understanding the "laws of motion" -- in this case, of U.S.
electoral politics -- is far more useful than this trivial and trivialized
label "conspiracy." So WHAT if the Democrats "conspire" to deceive working
class voters?  It's commonplace to say that politicians lie.

^^^^^
CB: Well, we have a standing and often proposed theory on these lists
regarding some of the laws of motion of the U.S. electoral system. It is
that the Dems regularly divert potential people's/working class movements
into the Democratic Party where said movements are smothered. This is
objectively a conspiracy theory seems to me, (although people have raised
some arguments as to why it is not a conspiracy theory).  I'm not sure why
you claim this is trivialzation. The result of no effective people's
movements is not a trivial fact.


Ok way overposted.

CB

Mike



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