[Marxism] secular chauvinism

["abu hartal" <abuhartal@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Yoshie and others,

Secular chauvinism should  be laid at the feet of the theorists
of the liberal nation-state, not Marxists.
The liberal nation state demanded no loyalty greater than to itself;
for this reason it attacked and domesticated religion so that loyalties 
could not
be fundamentally anti-national.
Think here of the problem radical Muslim identity poses to
the British nation state or think of the Napa Valley born Taleban 
sympathizer
(John Lindh?).
Marxists are not secularists in the name of the nation state, however.
Marxism is alone sufficiently sober to step
outside the choice between nation and religion. Let's not give up
our sobriety for an indulgence of patriarchal and irrationalist
religious reaction just because we find
ourselves in sharper struggle with its opponent.

Moreover, Marxists shouldn't
underestimate the repression which a secular state or rechtssttaat can 
inflict.
So I don't see any reason for Marxists to be defensive over
their criticism of theocratic state formations, criticism which
Marx began with On The Jewish Question. Marxists aren't
apologists for the crimes of the secular state. And they certainly
should not be indulgent of the Iranian theocracy.

And what is wrong with secular nation states is not that they
are secular but that they are capitalist nation states.

It seems to be intellectual suicide to give up on secularism because of
the crimes of secular capitalist nation states.

It does seem to me that you have lost your way. Or perhaps you
are proof enough that Marxism is dead in the American left. On
that you and Michael Walzer are at least agreed. He supports one
theocracy, you another.

Am I going to be unsubbed for a flame?

Yours in godlessness,

Abu Hartal

ps Yoshie, just got your message.

_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.com/


________________________________________________
YOU MUST clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.
Send list submissions to: Marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism