[Marxism] Re: Marxism Digest, Vol 32, Issue 50

[Fuat Ercan <ercanfu@xxxxxxxxx>]

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Re Reading Capital (Marc Simpson)
   2. Re: Sucker punching Leslie Cagan (Brian Shannon)
   3. Re: Sucker punching Leslie Cagan (Louis Proyect)
   4. Re Reading Capital (Scott Hamilton)
   5. Re Reading Marx (Alex Briscoe)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:25:19 +0100 (BST)
From: Marc Simpson
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Re Reading Capital
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Message-ID: <20060619162519.23956.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


--- Michael Hoover  wrote:

> been a long time since it read it, but there's _rereading capital_ by
> ben fine and laurence harris...    didn't althusser acknowledge
> somewhere that he hadn't actually read much of capital
> (and maybe marx, more generally)...   mh

As Heartfield cites:

'I became obsessed with the terrifying thought that these texts would expose me
completely to the public at large as I really was, namely a trickster and a
deceiver ... who knew almost nothing about ... Marx ... I had only seriously
studied Book I of Capital in 1964' The Future Lasts a Long Time, London:
Vintage, 1994, p148








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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:28:20 -0400
From: Brian Shannon

Subject: Re: [Marxism] Sucker punching Leslie Cagan
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Message-ID: <8943A825-F582-41AA-9022-53E5B0BE0C02@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
 format=flowed


On Jun 19, 2006, at 11:55 AM, Louis Proyect wrote:

> The Militant states:
>
>
> Statements by liberals or middle-class radicals in the U.S., like
> Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch or Leslie Cagan of United for
> Peace and Justice, saying that Washington was �perfectly within its
> rights� to kill Zarqawi, or that they �would not condemn� the
> killing because the target was �a terrorist,� are a capitulation to
> U.S. imperialism and its allies.


> "No, I don't recall saying that to the reporter I spoke to. I
> believe I said something like this...If there was evidence that
> Zarqawi had committed acts of terrorism then there should have been
> an effort to bring him to justice - which means arresting him and
> putting him on trial.
>
> "To be honest, I do not recall the exact words I used - but that's
> my position and so I am sure that was what I was communicating.  -
> Leslie Cagan


> The Militant articles have been cloaked in neutrality, but it is
> obvious to the careful reader which side they are on:
>
> At a February 22 Pentagon briefing in Washington, Gen. David
> Rodriguez said the operation is expected to be of a �significantly
> lesser degree� than what took place in Fallujah. In the current
> operation the Marines intend to �ride that fine line�where we don�t
> spoil the goodwill that�s here�while still having enough force so
> if the enemy decides to fight we can kill them,� said Lt. Col.
> Steven Dinauer. To that end, said the Monitor, in addition to their
> regular complement of tanks, mortars, and grenades, the Marines
> have also brought along a lawyer, $20,000 to pay for damages, and
> dozens of soccer balls.
> full: http://www.themilitant.com/2005/6910/691003.html


I'm surprised that Louis, who is usually finely tuned to such things,
sees Cagan's reply as superior to the Sun's (and the Militant's)
presentation. Since there is no right to economic strangulation,
invasion, and occupation, then there is no right to "arrest him and
[put] him on trial." There are many other things that the experienced
Cagan could have said. This is indeed a low point, whether on the
UFPJ web site or not. She is the spokesperson for a movement and it
doesn't matter whether the interviewer is the Sun, the Times, or the
Nation. Her reply ignores the whole history of the war and the fight
against it.

Louis is entirely right that The Militant's se of this quote from the
Pentagon is contemptible. Picking undigested straw from dog's crap is
more justified that throwing the whole kagada in our face. The
Militant, from shortly after the beginning of the war until now,
seems to think that by quoting the Pentagon it gets a relatively
honest presentation, instead of the spiels of the politicians and
media. It's the same crap, but dressed up green fatigues, or if in
dress uniform, with medals.

Brian Shannon






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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:36:57 -0400
From: Louis Proyect
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Sucker punching Leslie Cagan
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20060619123225.039bfed8@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


>I'm surprised that Louis, who is usually finely tuned to such things,
>sees Cagan's reply as superior to the Sun's (and the Militant's)
>presentation. Since there is no right to economic strangulation,
>invasion, and occupation, then there is no right to "arrest him and
>[put] him on trial." There are many other things that the experienced
>Cagan could have said. This is indeed a low point, whether on the
>UFPJ web site or not. She is the spokesperson for a movement and it
>doesn't matter whether the interviewer is the Sun, the Times, or the
>Nation. Her reply ignores the whole history of the war and the fight
>against it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that a murderer should be
arrested and put on trial. If somebody asked me what should have been done
about the people who flew airplanes into the WTC, I would have said exactly
the same thing even if some ultraleftist interpreted this as supporting the
USA: "arrest them and put them on trial".



--

www.marxmail.org




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:01:25 +1200 (NZST)
From: Scott Hamilton
Subject: [Marxism] Re Reading Capital
To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060619170126.42916.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Althusser's claim that he had not read all of Capital in 'The Future Lasts A 
Long Time' is, like most of the claims in that book, quite false. Althusser's 
library survives, and there are copies of all of Marx and Hegel's works there 
covered in copious notations. We need to remember that Althusser was mentally 
ill when he wrote 'The Future...', and that the book contains plenty of 
patently ludicrous claims, like the one about his encounter with de Gaulle in a 
Paris street.

When he was ill Althusser sometimes wanted to destroy himself - he probably 
killed his wife in an effort to destroy his reputation, and his autobiography 
is certainly written partly out of a desire for self-destruction. Rather than 
taking the autobiography too seriously we should check out the English-language 
edition of the late philosophical writings which Verso Books has just published.

Cheers
Scott

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alex Briscoe
Subject: [Marxism] Re Reading Marx
To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060619172810.39168.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Yes, "Dudes..." was written in the (more
gender-neutral) surfer-ian sense.

Perhaps I should have written,

Duuudddes.....

(as in whoa, that's heavy, satanic Marx, etc.)



Alex wrote:

Dudes.....

Forgot to add: a good course or reading of textbooks
in intro to macroecon and algebra would be a good
help, depending on how good your high school/college
education was.

Ratios, balancing of equations, etc.



I hope it is understood that women subscribers are
also encouraged to look into this as well.

--




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