Re: [Marxism] Re: Last word on whore and "farewell"

[Louis Kontos <lkontos@xxxxxxx>]

I don't know where to begin with this post. It's long, elaborate,
thoughtful, and clarifies nothing. If 'Louise' is a real person who
really took offense to the use of a single word in phrase that she
agreed with, in terms of sentiment, I would expect that she'd still
be around -- especially given all the mea culpus and elaborate
attempts to 'reach out' and reassess and the rest, of late. frankly,
i don't believe any of it. Is there nothing real to worry about
besides the use of a word like 'whore'?
Having said that, I'm confused about the use of the terms labor and
labor power in the post below. Workers sell -- what? -- labor power.
When you sell yourself directly, as opposed to labor power, you've
become a whore -- or whatever, please, somebody, give me a better,
non-offensive word.
What do I sell in the 'market' (no such thing, by the way, but let's
use some words that have common reference, shall we?)? I sell a
skill, a certain trade that I've learned at considerable cost to me
(and usually also my family and loved ones -- usually, no one is
spared anything). If I drop my pants for the boss, whomever, or if I
agree to do anything to keep my job, or to beat the next guy out of
job, I would be whoring.
Having never done any of that, though I might be richer by doing it,
I say whores are whores. (Though, I feel, in response to the post
below, that prostitution should be legal, since it is victimless and
sometimes people really do have to resort to selling their bodies to
live. I would neither glorify the practice nor condemn it, nor --
definitely not -- support laws against it.) 'Jerks' and 'wankers' and
the rest of what list members have offered as alternative adjectives
and invectives, are just not strong enough.
I say let's try not to be offensive, especially to people who don't
deserve any rancor, but let's also try to not be cowered into
submission by a single complaint as to the use of language. If
someone says that s/he has suffered under some revolution and
therefore doesn't want anybody using the term, because it's
offensive, would you all stop using it?
I say whores are okay -- whereas academic whores are reprehensible.
Louis

On Jun 3, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Fred Feldman wrote:

> In my opinion, the best contributions here were by Joaquin and
> Sartesian.  Louis really should learn to stop venting on such
> slight or
> nonexistent provocation.  He sets an example that contributes to
> creating a somewhat terrifying tone for the list at times.
>
> Maybe we should set up a special list for emoting and psychodrama.  A
> number of us could probably use it.  A variation on the SWP list.
>
> I just want to make some comments on the word "whore."  I used to
> use it
> myself for all kinds of things.  We are raised on it. A sellout is a
> whore.  A journalist who writes what he is told rather than what he
> knows is a whore.  Judith Miller of the New York Times is a whore, and
> so is Juan Forero.
>
> But today we understand social relations.  A "whore" is not like
> any of
> those people.  A whore is a woman (or man) in class society (that
> is the
> history as far as I know) who makes their living by selling their
> bodies
> and also their labor power (their skill at what is sometimes
> euphemistically described in our society as "making love") in order to
> making of living.  Whores do not sell their souls by definition, and
> some do not do so at all.  They fight to make a living and to preserve
> some ties with men that they would like to think were protective,
> although they know better.
>
> Its an oppressive social relation of capitalist society.  They are not
> criminals.  They are not traitors  Basically, they are working people,
> broadly but I think correctly defined.  The are not liars, at least
> not
> any more than many others and less than some, at least not by
> profession.
>
> This does not mean that I am for "legalizing prostitution" or treating
> it as an appropriate way to make a living.  I am for getting rid of
> it,
> but by methods that will accomplish the purpose in the long run,
> and not
> the current repression.  I do think all criminal code rules against it
> should go.
>
> Nor do I think the answer is to "arrest the Johns," as some suggests.
> That leads to the female cops singling out people who "can be tempted"
> for arrest.  The hell with all of that.  There is a road to ending
> prostitution, but it is a socialist one.  I am for a society where a
> person's right to be a commodity will not only not exist, but will be
> impossible to imagine.
>
> I am completely setting aside here another definition of "whore",
> quite
> common in their society.  According to that one, whores are women who
> like to have sex and have it with people they want, rather than basing
> their sexual activity on finding a breadwinner they can rely on for
> life, they  hope. The classic, absolutely beautiful rendition of this
> version is the Rodgers-Hart The Lady is a Tramp, which as sung by Lena
> Horne and even by Frank Sinatra is almost a protest song.
>
> With all this in mind, what is the possible value of using this as a
> description of people who sell themselves to the capitalist.
> Doesn't it
> raise sex-bias problems just like (and even more) than using the term
> "Judas" for a traitor can raise problems on the Jewish question.  I
> don't believe that anyone who says Judas is an anti-semite, and I know
> that people who say "whore" are not all sexist, but what is the
> purpose
> of fighting to preserve the use once it has been pointed out that
> someone finds it offensiveness.  This is an aspect of the campaigning
> against "political correctness" that I have never been able to
> get.  Its
> not a question
>
> I remember that a discussion started off in the Militant staff because
> someone used the term "niggardly" in an article.  A Black reader found
> this offensive because, well, the first two syllables sound exactly
> like
> "nigger."  The answer was to tell the reader sharply that the word was
> not racist and to show from the Oxford English Dictionary that it had
> old English origins.  And not only that, the Militant (this was a
> bit of
> Barnes hysteria added to the mix) began to use the word "niggardly" as
> much as possible (they were waging war at the time against political
> correctness -- the tendency of the oppressed who have become conscious
> and active to take oppressed at various expressions of the existing
> situation).
>
> Well okay, it's old English.  And it sounds like "nigger."  Why the
> hell
> use it once this has been pointed out.  People who can afford a
> complete
> set of the Oxford (a good idea-- I am not knocking it) should be
> able to
> buy all the writers a thesaurus, where they will find miserly,
> tight-fisted and many other useful synonyms..  Its not like there
> are no
> alternatives. Why the tendency to get the back up.  The issue is not
> whether free speech is a good idea, but whether antiracists and
> antisexists should learn through experience to express their ideas in
> ways that don't unnecessarily offend oppressed peoples and women.
> It's
> a learning process, but if you are just a little flexible, it is
> not as
> hard as it sounds.  And you don't give up any ideas that you want to
> express -- if you are who you appear to be and who you think you are.
>
> Personally I don't think "niggardly" will make it into the socialist
> future.  Why?  Because it sounds like "nigger."  So, so long
> "niggardly".  See you maybe in Word Heaven for innocent words outdated
> by politics.  That is, if we win.
>
> And the same thing is true for the use of whore to mean sell-out,
> traitor, someone who submits to the bosses, someone who sells their
> soul
> for a mess of pottage, etc.
>
>
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