[Marxism] RE: Shachtman and "Third Camp"

["Tom O'Lincoln" <suarsos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Wayne:
>>But I cannot process the "third camp" tenet of Shachtman's left period.
These are people who understood Leninism and the need to be opposed to
imperialism; what is more imperialist than the United States?  This
analysis clearly did a lot of damage to those who stayed loyal to Shachtman
in his "State Department Socialist" period.  The Soviet Union did not have
to be defended on a class basis; the regime did not even
have to be defended.  Anti-imperialism in and of itself is a sufficient
ground to stand against any aggression from the United States against
another nation.<<

During his left period, Shachtman did oppose US imperialism. I think is
later evolution is best understood in terms of: 1) the general social
pressures of the time; 2) his group wasn't going anywhere; 3) his theory
was open to the idea that stalinism was worse than capitalism.

>How is it that such an analysis was not in the minds of Draper and his
fellow travelers, especially after Shachtman so brutally moved to the
right?<<

It was in Draper's mind, which is why he broke with Shachtman. As for his
"fellow travelers", there were various views. The Vietnam war brought these
into sharp focus. One grouping, which included Joanne Landy, argued that
both sides in Vietnam were equally bad. Draper (and I supported him in
this) argued that the Vietnamese struggle should be supported on grounds of
national self-determination -- that is, opposition to imperialism.

But your question goes further. If nothing is more imperialist than the
United States, does it follow that we support any country the US attacks?
Really? Even Nazi Germany?

The basic issue here is that Shachtman, Draper et al thought the USSR was
also imperialist. I won't pursue that here, though, because it would get us
into debates that have proved sterile in the past. I'd be happy to canvass
them off-list.

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