RE: [Marxism] Antiwar demonstration in Washington

["ameritech acoount" <stansmith44@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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RE: [Marxism] Antiwar demonstration in Washington

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  a.. To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition" 
<marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
  b.. Subject: RE: [Marxism] Antiwar demonstration in Washington 
  c.. From: "David McDonald" <dbmcdonald@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
  d.. Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:59:29 -0700 
  e.. Importance: Normal 
  f.. In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F18D9991638570A8A9D8F71D78B0@xxxxxxx> 
  g.. Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist 
tradition<marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
  h.. Sender: marxism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

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Eli wrote:

It so happens I'm rather near the age of sixty myself, Louis. And it
certainly wasn't above me to stand in the middle of a street with a garbage
can collecting money, or walk alongside the march providing security, or
help setup tables to get things going in the morning. No, the absence of any
one person doesn't cause a problem. But aren't we Marxists because we
believe that the MASSES TOGETHER can make change? It's because you and a
dozen more just like you were too self-important to volunteer for the menial
tasks that those menial tasks didn't get done to your satisfaction.

David McDonald replies:

Get off it, Eli. I will match activist credentials with you any day of the
week, and I agree wholeheartedly with Louis P's political points about
ANSWER/TONC, and I wrote at length about the problem with WWP/PSL in a
Marxmail post entitled Working with ANSWER, dated 7/23/2005.

If you think any group, any group whatsoever, can effectively lead people
when it fears open political process like Dracula fears sunlight, you got
another think coming. The demos were small because ANSWER captured itself
and lots of us, as individuals, have had it with that kind of shit and
aren't going to play anymore if we don't get to talk and vote on what the
deal is going to be. Bravo to USLAW for trying to fix this, bravo to Cindy
Sheehan for helping to shame the duelling idiot coalitions into a merged
rally and march.

Instead of fearing the reformist forces of UfPJ, ANSWER should be jumping up
and down for joy that they exist and figuring out how to INCLUDE them
through conducting an open struggle for the politics of the movement as a
whole. UfPJ is not going to do this, they are Democrats for Christssake,
they would love it if all of us Reds just hung out together with our perfect
politics forever. It is up to the LEFT to unite  the antiwar movement as a
whole

The bottom line for WWP/PSL is that they hate and fear any process they
don't control. They hate real votes about politics because they might not
win those votes. Their solution: avoid them. Meanwhile, to the average
American, ANSWER/TONC is the American left, and furthermore ANSWER is giving
UFPJ a free ride to impose their Democratic Party politics on the movement's
big events. Thanks for nothing.


Stan Smith replies:Get off it David. How do two "idiot coalitions" as you so 
patronizingly call them,get 200,000 to 300,000 people to a national 
demonstration? You suggest that ANSWER worktogether with UFPJ isntead of 
"fearing" it. Well On September 24 they did just work together,so what are you 
talking about? Now how do you think the "left" is going to unite the 
anti-warmovement when leftists like you and louis adopt the attitude you have 
towards ANSWER? A reformist anti-war coalition was forced into a joint 
demonstration with a consciously anti-imperialist anti-war coalition, and the 
result was a huge anti-war demonstration. This is a tremendousvictory for the 
anti-imperialist movement in the US. It's too bad ANSWER doesn't listen to 
you,but we should all be glad there is a major anti-war organization that does 
not listen to, thattakes no instructions from the Democratic Party. The 
pettiness you and Louis constantly show towards ANSWER, the bitter 
vindictiveness, is kind of a sickness.I don't belong to ANSWER, I don't go to 
ANSWER meetings, but I see what they do, and their program andtheir actions I 
back fully because their militant anti-imperialist content. Young Trotsky and 
later Rosa Luxembourg wrote a lot stronger stuff about how Lenin operated, 
don't forget.Suppose Lenin never got the chance to lead a revolution, how many 
people here would say the reason he failed was because of his party methods of 
operation. But he got the job done. So far ANSWER is getting the job 
done.That's what counts the most.   Stan Smith
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