Re: [Marxism] Lula - one more

["rrubinelli" <rrubinelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Juriaan misses the point completely: and the point is history.
Social-democracy had an entirely different meaning before WW 1, before
the Russian Revolution.  But WW1 and the RR did occur, and social
democracy proved itself worse than bankrupt, as another means for
maintaining the rule of private property, of capital.

To call the NEP a social democratic policy is once again to ignore real
history, the  history of the depletionof the material basis for economic
development by the counterrevolution and civil war. This, calling the
NEP "social democratic"  is simultaneously hilarious and pathetic. .

Lula's no Lenin, to put it mildly, but that's not the point.  JB in
previous posts quite clearly thinks there is no revolutionary
alternative to capitalism, and its social democrat recuperators.  How
else to explain the ridiculous assertion that a "leftist" finance
minister will always fuck things up?

The question is not what Lula should do, or what Louis (or even Jurriann
or even I ) would do in Lula's place.  The question is why Lula is in
that place to begin with and what is the material impact on the working
class, the poor of Brazil, of the things Lula is doing.

Louis has not, nor has anyone, in this discussion argued or criticized
Lula on the basis of ideology, on the basis of doctrine or deviation
from doctrine of Marxism-Leninism.  Jurriann is creating a straw man
only to lament the lack of the straw man's brains.   We are not on the
road to Oz, here.  We are discussing what has occurred to the movement
of Brazilian workers, landless, rural workers, urban poor as a result of
Lula's pseudo-leftism, his reliable service to the bourgeoisie, local
and international.

We are talking about increased unemployment,  declining numbers of  jobs
with wages above minimum, real attacks by death squads on the real poor,
losses of pension benefits, etc.

Jurriann says "probably a critique of Lula could be made" but he
"wouldn't know what it is."  Perfect Kantianism.  That's social
democracy, for you.

But for the record the bourgeoisie, when push comes to shove, and the
workers and poor of Brazil who will be pushing and shoved aren't
Kantians and they know what the critique of Lula is and must become.

rr



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jurriaan Bendien" <adsl675281@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Marxmail List" <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: [Marxism] Lula - one more



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