Re: [Marxism] Hmpf! Dialectics? Yes.

["www.leninology. blogspot.com" <leninology@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Inasmuch as Hegelian conceptual operations facilitated Marx's project in the
first place, I concede that he created the conditions of possibility of
Marxism.  To this extent, I am not arguing that we should simply ignore
Hegel - we simply have to work through him, discarding as Marx did that
which is useless, rather than taking a religious attitude to it.  But I'd be
interested to know a) what 'dialectical logic' is, b) why this is essential
to understanding Capital, c) what you think "consciousness" is, and d) why
you think that seeing this thing as a social product dissolves the
identity/equality confusion in Trotsky's writing?

> From: "Paul H. Dillon" <illonph@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist
> tradition<marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition"
> <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Hmpf!  Dialectics?  Yes.
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:01:28 -0700
>
> I don't see how Marxist theory is possible without the concept of the
> dialectic.  Dialectical logic, as Ilyenkov rigorously demonstrated, guides
> all of the central analyses of Capital Vol. 1.   Marxist theory without the
> dialectic is like a carriage without a horse although not the other way
> around.    Marx's appropriation of dialectical logic and his use of it to
> analyze the historical genesis of value didn't abandon the notion that
> consciousness (not simply abstract objects of consciousness) is a social
> product.  Once this is realized, the identity/equality problem disappears.
> Ilyenkov and later Mikhailov (both available in the MIA archive) are two
> excellent philosophers who have picked up Lenin's challenge to all marxists
> to study Hegel's Logic, indicating that a full understanding of Capital was
> impossible without such preparation.
>
> Paul Dillon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nestor Gorojovsky"
> <nestorgoro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:46 PM
> Subject: [Marxism] Hmpf! Dialectics? Yes.
>
>
> Respuesta a:"Marxism Digest, Vol 19, Issue 33"
> Enviado por:marxism-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Con fecha:11 May 2005, a las 12:00
>
> > I agree with that broad analysis, but surely we can dispense with the
> > language of 'dialectics'?
> >
> > For instance, you describe the 'contradictions' of US society, but
> > contradictions involve two propositions which make one another
> > impossible. There aren't contradictions in reality, only conflicts,
> > interfaces of struggle and tension.
>
> I am afraid I can't, because I don't believe formal logic to be
> adequate (enough) for things human or historical.
>
>
>
> Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
> nestorgoro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> "La patria tiene que ser la dignidad arriba y el regocijo abajo".
> Aparicio Saravia
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>
>
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