conspirational world view (was Re: [Marxism] Re: Pearl Harbor, etc.--reply

["Carlos A. Rivera" <cerejota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Shannon" <Brian_Shannon@xxxxxxxxxxx>

> There may be better words to use to describe this than the word
> conspiracy, but it can't be rejected out of hand. Of course, this isn't
> the same as "conspiracy theory" as you have been discussing it. It's
> simply a word--a piece of rhetoric and perhaps somewhat hackneyed. Isn't
> it better than "alienating nature of social relationships within
> capitalism."

It is indeed better. The nature of the electoral college in the USA is not
conspirational by any definition of the word. Yet it is alienating by the
very definition of the word.

Even if we reduce it to a mere linguistic discussion, as you appear to be
trying to do, "alienating" is better than "conspirational".

And mind you, I agree fully with the actual point you are trying to make on
the current federal electoral system in the USA being undemocratic.

> [2] I'll have to take a "by" on this.

Why?

> [3] There probably is a middle ground here. The how, what, and why are
> interrelated. The problem with conspiracy theories is that they lead us
> down blind alleys. They focus on interrelationships between sections of
> the ruling class. They credit greater power to obscure forces than they
> actually have. They draw talented individuals into obscure research and
> separate them from real political work of interest to working people.
>
> On the other hand, as some one else pointed out, we need to be aware of
> real conspiracies in order to inoculate and guard ourselves. The purpose
> of this is to prevent ourselves from being thrown off stride.

The problem is one of balance. Such conspiracies I prefer to be dealt with
by the leadership in a (counter)conspirational manner, not widely discussed
and informing our views as militants, or even as leaders. It is pure and
simple an organizational matter, not a political one.

> For example, while both organizations were damaged by the FBI conspiracy,
> their knowledge of the history of revolutionary movements helped the CP
> and SWP keep their focus, while the relatively inexperienced Black Panther
> Party fell victim to COINTELPRO.

I know this is taken as an item of faith in the USA left, but I am not so
sure the COINTELPRO played such a pivotal role in the demise of the BPP. I
for one think that their road has much more to do with the political
degeneration suffered by the SWP than with state intervention.

This example is a choice one when attacking a conspirational world view. The
conspirational world view accepts that the demise of the BPP was due to the
COINTELPRO. Thus, questions of political line, of political practices, of
how the class struggle develops, of armed adventurism, of white skin
privilege and racism within the revolutionary movement etc etc etc, in other
words questions that to any marxist are important and central to examine
when approaching the BPP get lost in the conspiracy world view.

Yes, state repression is real, and it is conspirational. Yet the Bolsheviks
faced a similary huge counter-intelligence program, which included CC
members, and they were able to win. And the Bolsheviks faced this repression
without rest from 1905 to 1917, their entire life. The Bolsheviks didn't
have anymore experience dealing with state repression than the BPP did in
its heyday. This tells us that conspiracies are only effective when you have
an otherwise weakened organization.

My own organization, one born in 1974 with not historical organic link to
any previous revolutionary organization, made up of cadre with an average
age of 24, and essentially inexperienced, was able to face COINTELPRO
effectively, to the point we exist today. And believe they faced COINTELPRO,
the FBI files from the period fill several shelves.

Unwittingly, you illustrate the very reason why conspirational world views
are not politically useful. By taking as an item of faith that the BPP was
destroyed in the main because of COINTELPRO, questions essential for any
revolutionary in the USA go un-answered or, worse, ignored.

The conspiracy theory is in fact just another superstition, like religion
and gender differences and whatnot.

sks


_______________________________________________
Marxism mailing list
Marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism