Re: [Marxism] A clarification on Peronism, Zionism and Socialism

[rrubinelli <rrubinelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain your view.  Certainly I 
agree with
you that only those who don't stop at the gates to private property can take 
that
struggle to victory.  The problem I see is confusing, or conflating, a class 
struggle for
emancipation of all of society from capital,  which is  international at
core, with the struggle for "national independence."  It seems to me that 
posing the issue
that way allows for more than a possibility that the latter can be achieved, 
without being,
superceded without the former. 

To be more precise--  the struggle in Venezuela is most definitely not a 
struggle for 
national liberation, to "throw off" the domination of imperialism, and against 
the inability
of global capitalist domination to allow other countries to reach good ole 
self-centered
capitalism.

There is no foreign domination of the economy, other than the same forces of 
capital
at work everywhere in the world markets.  And close study of the history of 
Venezuela
shows that the extreme poverty of the general population was not the result of 
looting
of the country's resources during colonial or post colonial times.    

What is there is there as the product of class struggle.  And that is not the 
struggle for
national sovereignty against the designs of foreign capital, but a struggle 
against private
property, the proprietors of which will not hesitate to call upon their pals  
in the US,
in Tachira,  in Colombia for rescue.

The struggle in Vietnam, the history of revolution and counterrevolution in 
Vietnam, is not
adequately explained now or then by the single phrase from Ho Chi Minh.  We 
should be
very clear on this.  Vietnam defeated the US based on the enormous historical 
and material
weight of the victorious proletarian revolution in Russia 58 years prior to 
April 1975.

Does anyone think that the revolution in Cuba would have survived 46 weeks much 
less 46 
years without the success in October 1917?  

And, as is all too painfully clear, that historical process has been and is 
being reversed.  In
Russian. And  in Vietnam, where the previously successful unity of the nation 
and socialism
has now brought the nation into more direct integration with the world markets, 
the demands
of capital.

rr



-----Original Message-----
From: Nestor Gorojovsky <nestorgoro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Third World nationalism is a programmatic revolutionary patriotism.  
Of course, we live in the age of imperialism, and capitalism has 
demonstrated that it is more than obsolete, etc.  But the fact is, 
that the way in which capitalism has developed has turned the global 
economy into a fractured whole, where global capitalist domination 
closes the way to those countries that try to reach not just 
socialism but, simply, the modest results of good ole self-centered 
capitalism.  The struggle for "national revolution" in a semicolonial 
country is thus inextrincably and simultaneously _national and 
social_, and in the development of the struggle "the theory predicts" 
that it is only those members of the national front that will not 
stop in front of the gates of Private Property who will take the 
struggle to victory.  If the masses can realize this, then they will 
support them. If the masses don't realize this, well, it is a matter 
of time: either the country will be scratched off the surface of the 
Globe, or the masses will in the end take a socialist path.

Under this general (and hastily written) conception, it is my opinion 
that both paragraphs by you above contradict each other.

If you have passed through all that reading, and Connolly too, and 
you still don't understand how is it that Fidel Castro is a national 
leader _and_ a socialist (and is a socialist because a national 
leader, and a national leader because he is a socialist) you can't 
understand Ho Chih Minh's idea that "this nation and socialism are 
one and the single thing".

If you can't grasp that, it won't be a busy man here in the South, 
with a couple of postings on Marxmail, who will give you the clue.

Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
nestorgoro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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