[Marxism] Pearl Harbor, etc.

[Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxx>]

bob wrote:
> Given your tone, it seems I've touched a raw nerve.
>
> Rather than either Zinn or Jared Israel, try reading Day Of Deceit: The
> Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett. He produces xerox
> copies of the incriminating memos from/to Roosevelt. It took him decades
> to get the documents released.

Stinnett is mainly about code-breaking, not "incriminating memos". For
those who are interested in a debate between Stinnett and one of his
critics, go to http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=445. I do
want to warn you, however, that it revolves around the same kind of arcana
that you find in 9/11 conspiracy mongering. What is missing from this sort
of discussion is politics.

> American workers haven't got any real interest in wars against the rest of
> the world. Prior to Pearl Harbor, the vast majority of Americans wanted no
> part of another war. From Roosevelt's perspective (and the rest of the
> section of the ruling class he represented) something had to be done to
> change the majority's opinion. It was. The 'sacrifice' of 500,000 lives
> (with a fair number being members of their class) didn't prevent them from
> acting. The existence of a ruling class doesn't preclude either
> differences of opinion within that class or ruthless tactics by a sector
> of that class against any other sector of that class. Competition
> (sometimes to the death) is just part of the system.

The war with Japan was inevitable. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because the
USA had cut off its oil supplies. See Jonathan Marshall's "To Have and to
Have Not." The notion that US imperialism would allow its navy to be
destroyed in order to break down isolationist feelings among the American
population is far-fetched to say the least. Once again I urge people to
read Zinn's account of all this.

> An attack on Iraq was discussed for years by both Democrats and
> Republicans, with each accusing the other of being weak. But it wasn't
> possible to pull it off until 911. They wanted to. But they needed
> something to get the country behind them and they got it.

Just what Marxmail needs. A 4 sentence analysis of why the US went to war
in Iraq.

> From their point of view, the loss of a thousand stockbrokers and bankers
> and a handful of generals isn't a very large cost given the changes it
> brought about. You'll notice that the Washington plane didn't hit the
> White House or the Capitol.
>
> And yes I've read Domhoff and I'm aware of Kerry's lineage and neither has
> anything to do with what we're talking about.

The problem is that we are talking about different things. You are talking
about how conspiracies change histories, not class conflict.You are
obviously not interested in a Marxist analysis. Rather than referring us to
the work of Robert Stinnett, you'd be better advised to show some examples
of how Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. wrote about conspiracy. After Archduke
Ferdinand was assassinated, Lenin became preoccupied with the betrayal of
socialist parliamentarians not uncovering Serb plots. Get with the program,
bob. This is a Marxism list, not a conspiracy theory list.

--

www.marxmail.org


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