[Marxism] Buying off the German people

["Charles Brown" <cbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

CB:>Surely, the Korean and Viet Nam wars were as bad or worse than the
Italian
>wars on Ethopia. The latter is irrefutably fascist, no ?

Louis Proyect :
Charles, the colonial governor-general of Algeria during the war of
independence was Robert Lacoste, a Socialist. The French minister of
interior at the time was Socialist Francois Mitterrand, who stated that
"the only possible negotiation is war."

On February 9, 1956, the French government of socialist Guy Mollet
introduced a bill giving the government "special powers" to act in Algeria.
He asked for special powers "enabling it to take all exceptional measures in
view of establishing order, protecting persons and property, and
safeguarding the territory." In order to do this, it allowed for the call-up
of reservists, the suspending of the guarantee of civil liberties in
Algeria, and divided Algeria into three zones, in the third of which , "the
forbidden zone," populations were put in settlement camps and placed
under Army control.

The motion passed on March 12 by a vote of 455-76, with the French
Communist Party voting for it. You can read CP leader Jacques Duclos's
justification for the vote at:

http://www.marxists.org/history/algeria/1956/duclos.htm

Socialist parliamentarians voted to go to war in 1914. That war was far more
brutal than any war since. Poison gas was used and millions of workers died
in trench warfare. When German workers led by Rosa Luxemburg rose up against
the architects of war, she was murdered by soldiers who got their marching
orders from socialists.

So what do we make of these Socialists and Communists who voted for
imperialist war? Were they Socialist Fascists? Communist Fascists?

^^^^
CB: They were sort of like the Kautskyite Social Democrats ( the most
advanced Marxist party in the world up to that point, according to Lenin ,
who of course famously criticized them for their vote)who voted for war in
1914: Marxists voting for a fascist , imperialist war. Opportunists.
Renegades.

Of course, I can follow your analogies, but your logic is getting a bit... I
don't know .. too attenuated to be a cogent reply to my question.

I was talking about Italy , with a regime that no one dare say is not
fascist, obviously. I asked you to compare the U.S. and Italian imperialist
wars. Lets answer that before going on about France in Algeria.

But for that matter, yes, I would say France's foreign policy was fascist
with respect to Algeria, whatever the domestic circumstance at the time.

^^^^^^


I don't think so. Although the USA is far from the time when genuine
fascists will mount a threat,


^^^^^
CB: This is the issue in dispute. Here , you are asserting as true your
position on the issue we are arguing over. It is not established by the
evidence that "the USA is far from the time when genuine fascists will mount
a threat. "

^^^^^


 it is crucial that we be able to distinguish the real thing. Labeling
groups or individuals fascist because they act brutally is not a good idea.
The capitalist system is brutal. This is
doubly true when you are talking about a big capitalist power like the USA,
England, France or Germany.

^^^^^

CB: Just as we discuss the lack of differences between Dems and Reps , it is
time to emphasis the lack of difference between the bourgeois
democratic-republican and fascist forms of the bourgoeis state.



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