[Marxism] Buying off the German people

["Charles Brown" <cbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Charles, McCarthyism did not involve genocide against Blacks or American
Indians. In fact the civil rights movement begins to take shape at the
height of McCarthyism. With respect to American Indians, their lot did not
get any worse than usual in the 1950s. The war on Korea was no different
than the war in Vietnam. It was brutal, but it was par for the course.

^^^^
CB: The _same_ state that was imprisoning Communists, was responsible for
the ongoing genocides.  As I said see _We Charge Genocide_. The fact that it
was "not worse than usual" only means that it had been fascist for a longer
time than that immediate circumstance. Doesn't mean it wasn't fascist.
Fascist was usual in the U.S. with Jim Crow and Indian Reservations, going
right back to the 1800's.
"Par for the course" brutality was fascist level of brutality, in both wars.
Surely, the Korean and Viet Nam wars were as bad or worse than the Italian
wars on Ethopia. The latter is irrefutably fascist, no ?

^^^^^^

With respect to Italian fascism, there is a huge difference between what
happened in the USA in the 1950s and Italy in the 1920s, even if Mussolini
did not round up the Jews, etc. Italy was a state that did not permit an
opposition press. Civil liberties were totally eliminated. It was a single
party state, etc. In the 1950s in the USA, people protested the execution of
the Rosenbergs. They published the National Guardian newspaper and Monthly
Review. In 1956, Bert Cochran and other leftist participated in an open
meeting on regroupment along with A.J. Muste of the Fellowship of
Reconciliation and Sidney Lens, a writer and trade union official. His
speech to that mass gathering can be read at:
http://www.marx.org/history/etol/newspape/amersocialist/amersoc_5611.htm
There were no meetings like that in fascist Italy.

^^^^^^
CB: Note: The US wars on Korea and Viet Nam were _worse_ than the Italian
war on Ethopia. That difference argues for the U.S. being more fascist than
Italy, not less.

What you describe is not very persuasive of a "huge difference" in the sense
of Italy being hugely worse.  As to civil liberties, the Communists were
being jailed. The Supreme Court had already interpreted the First Amendment
as not barring imprisoning socialists for speeches urging workers not to go
to WWI ! That was the status of civil liberties when McCarthyism started.
Obviously, the jailing of the Communists effectively shutdown most
authentically oppositional press.  I didn't think you would be one to
distinguish between the U.S. "two-party" state and a one-party state. Dems
are the same as Reps , no ? Basically, this means that the duopoly is not
more democratic than a one party state. The duopoly is a scam and a
deception, in a way worse than openly admitting that there is no
oppositional party. That there were two parties in the U.S. is a superficial
difference from the one-party state in Italy.

Obviously, the Rosenbergs were executed ! That incident supports my
argument.

 I don't give the U.S. much credit for its "free" press. There has been for
a long time freedom of the press for them that owns the presses. The mass
media are giant corporations, critical institutions _of_ and for the ruling
class, not oppositional watchdogs of it.





>( See _We Charge Genocide_
>petition to UN from the early fifties. The liberal students, Goodman,
>Schwarner and Cheney, were rounded up and murdered in the U.S.A. in the
>1950's. Liberal students were shot to death at Kent State and Jackson State
>in the 1960's. Of course, Black Panthers were assassinated by government
>agents , too. Then there are the assassinations of King. Current research
>may demonstrate govt. involvement in the assassination of Malcolm X. These
>are fully fascist repressive tactics.

No, they are simply repressive tactics.

^^^^
CB: That's the point in dispute. I say these arise to the category of
fascist, on their face. Murdering Malcolm X and King had enormous effect in
repressing tens of thousands of others. Even the murders of the Kennedy's
arise to more than "simple" repressive tactics.

^^^^^^^


 Such repression was a reaction to
the huge strides being made by Blacks. In the 1930s, cops shot strikers
during the time when the CIO was enjoying explosive growth. Nobody would
call this symptomatic of fascism.

^^^^^

CB: I would and am calling them symptomatic of fascism.

 Recall that Smedley helped thwart a fascist coup in the thirties. There
were plenty of "symptoms" of fascism in the US of the 1930's. Henry Ford had
a picture of Hitler in his office, published the Protocols of the Elders of
Zion in the Dearborn newspaper; Father Coughlin, the Black Legions, race
riot in Detroit in 1943 ( I think). That's all just in Detroit area.

^^^^^^

It was just the class struggle. The class
struggle generates violence. It always has.

^^^^^
CB: The violence in Germany and Italy was "just" class struggle too. The
violence in the US is not distinguished from that in Germany and Italy by
its being generated by the class struggle.







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