Re: [Marxism] On Gary's indignation and my opinions

[James Daly <james.irldaly@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Calvin, what I originally said was:
And it is refreshing to see you express a *non-Anglo* understanding of
the history of Catholicism and Protestantism. If I were to attempt that
*here*, I would be accused by both liberals and Marxists of religious
bigotry, and that is a very oppressive, inhibiting and censoring factor
[**added].
Not for the first time, my condensed style has led to unintentional
ambiguity.  By "here" I meant locally, and "that" of course refers to a
"non-Anglo" understanding.  After all the context was that Nestor --
from a privileged perspective -- pointed out that Gary's understanding
of Catholicism was very Protestant; and he was right, and many Marxists
would say there was a materialist explanation for such a phenomenon, to
be found in the white colonies, especially the big one that got away.
The Whig interpretation of history is still the dominant imperialist
ideology.  It has given half of its DNA to its offspring, canonical
"freethinking", of which Calvin clearly has imbibed.  Along that line it
entered Marxism -- but not so much Marx.  This list is remarkably free
of it.
My revolutionary Irish friend Calvin should know of course that his
never having been a Protestant does not prevent him from being a
Protestant atheist -- a "perceived" Protestant atheist, that is -- or
from being inescapably a little "more Anglo than thou". :-)
Nestor, you know I would never compare our situation to that of the Jews
in Germany -- and I agree with everything in your latest post.  We were
all Zionists then.  There was a strong Jewish-Irish bond -- see Leon
Uris's "Trinity" (in the Seventies he produced a beautiful book of
photographs of Ireland, including grim ones of Orange marches).
Republicans danced the Shigella, and railed on the British for not
allowing the Jews a homeland.  President McAleese did not compare the
situations, as the Unionists and the Unionist 26 county paper
dishonestly claimed; she only pointed out a similarity in one important
detail -- the inculcation of hatred in children.
Comradely
James

Calvin Broadbent wrote:

> I was quite unaware that you meant to give a factual account of
> Protestantism and Catholicism as they have existed *locally* (i.e. in
> Ireland), James. Were you to do so, I would certainly not accuse you
> of religious bigotry- *even* if your analysis was virulently
> anti-Protestant (and I am somewhat aware of the degeneration of the
> progressive aspects of that religion in Ireland over the past two
> centuries). For the record, I am not, have never been, and never will
> be a Protestant! (My parents are also atheists- one-time Protestant
> ones admittedly). ;)
>
>
>
> Regarding 'sectarian' indoctrination of 'Protestant' children in North
> Belfast: Mrs. McAleese's comments are, in fact, quite accurate in many
> (not all) quarters there. As James suggests, however, this has nothing
> to do with theological disputation, and, as I have suggested,
> everything to do with the concrete fundations of Northern Irish
> society (class division, the unionist elite, the armed power of
> loyalist bigots, social deprivation, segregation and isolation, etc.,
> etc.). I recommend the book *Holy Cross* by Anne Cadwallader, which
> shows the extent of vile bigotry amongst the Protestant working class
> in North Belfast and its sociostructural supports.


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