RE: [Marxism] Two rock-and-roll band documentaries

["Calvin Broadbent" <calvinbroadbent@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

I defer to Carlos' superior analysis of punk and heavy metal music. He has
certainly provided the skeleton of a much more nuanced understanding of the
political content of these types of bands' lyrics and formal development
than I did. I disagree somewhat with Carlos' statement that 'music is
subjective'. Obviously, it is in some respects. However, clearly, since our
discussion was about the progressive content (or otherwise) of heavy metal
and punk lyrics, the determination of lyrics as 'good' is in relation to the
latter. Of course, there are many ways that music or lyrics can be good,
some of which may conflict with ways in whcih they are bad. Hence, a person
can hold ambivalent, indifferent, positive or negative views of a band
considering their musics' pros and cons.

CARLOS WROTE:

> There are 3 distintly reactionary, sizeable but still minorities within the
> wide punk "movement", there is the RAC-White Power rock, with mainly
> British origins, there is the Ramones school of silly individualist
> american punk, and there is nihilist punk of the Sex pistols.

Fair enough, but there is a massive amount of punk (the whole 'emo' and most
of the 'straight edge' scene) that is straightforwardly individualistic and
apolitical and much of which tends to be decidedly macho and right-wing
rubbish. So much of this proliferates in the punk scene that I would
question your statement that most punk is left wing.

Anyway, despite being a fan of the heavier end of heavy metal music
(grind/crust or whatever you like), I think there is yet one serious flaw in
that kind of music. (BTW, there is *no way* you can convince me that Morbid
Angel are left wing). Unless a person is presented with a transcript of
punk/metal lyrics, it is usually nigh on impossible to make them out
aurally. This is in marked contrast to both hip hop music and 'folk' music.
As a result, one is often left with the impression that a metal band could,
in fact, be screaming about the most banal of sentiments. Even the good ones
often do.

all the best.


> In response to Louis' own review of the Ramones and Metallica
> 'rocumentaries', I would just say a couple of things. I think Louis makes
> an interesting point in counterposing the ideology behind a lot of punk and
> metal music to that of the rock music of the 1960s.

> I think you read too much into it. Had Louis attempted a comprehensive
> review of the political landscape of metal and punk, I would have disagreed
> profoundly. But by narrowing it down to the Ramones and Metallica, I am
> much more open to the contrast.

> Punk and Metal were both born in the late 60s early 70s, even if they broke
> in by 1977 (much like grunge was around in the mid-80s but breaks in
> 1991-92).
....

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