Re: [Marxism] Re: Marxism] seeking explanation re Stann Goff statement

["acpollack2@xxxxxxxx" <acpollack2@xxxxxxxx>]

I have to agree with Mike. What else was the Bolsheviks' demand for Bread 
(Freedom) and Peace, but a transitional demand showing in stages that only 
socialism could provide BOTH bread and peace WITHOUT ripping off colonies AND 
workers at home?

I hate to say it given Stan's great writing, but his whole proposal is a left 
version of Cagan et al.'s new more profound strategy for building the movement, 
which is neither new nor profound. It is instead a retread of the SDS strategy: 
we had one (OK, today, 2 or 3) mass movements, we didn't win, we're tired and 
bored, let's do something exciting like education and CD!

What we need are open decision-making conferences like during Vietnam to decide 
these questions.

-- Mike Friedman <mikedf@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
He's saying that within our social order, the either/or demand "money for
people and not for war" is invalid, because the money for "human needs,"
"jobs," "schools," "social services," or however else we frame the demand is
based on and generated by imperialism's ability to wage wars of conquest and
steal other peoples' resources. This is the argument that has been made in
other contexts that the U.S. population as a whole -- and in particular, its
working class -- benefits from and enjoys privileges due to imperialism. I
think he misses the boat. First, there is an undeniable need for health
care, jobs and education in this country, sacrificed at the altar of
profits. A central sector for profitable investment is the death industry:
the "iron triangle" or the "military-industrial complex" or whatever. The
demand highlights the utter irrationality of capitalism and its allocation
of resources by posing that either/or. It also highlights our utter lack of
control over how that money, our tax money, is spent. And there is a
connected moral issue, an issue of solidarity, which is that this money
should NOT be used to fund immoral imperialist wars. And should the U.S.
working class ever manage to impose this demand on the rulers, it would
become evident soon enough whether or not U.S. workers benefit from an
imperialist trickle-down.

Mike


On 1/3/05 9:33 AM, "marxism-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<marxism-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this list (not so new to marxism).  I admire Stan Goff's marxist
> analysis of US military imperialism, but got lost with section I have put in
> bold type below [title: A Period for pedogogy;  source: counterpunch website].
>
> Do people think it's (a) marxist, (b) correct; and (c) what is he actually
> saying anyway?
>
> In Solidarity, Rohan G.
>
> I am thoroughly unconvinced by the economistic approach of talking about how
> much money is being spent on the war instead of social services, etc. Not only
> does this argument consistently get trumped by Orange Alerts and other forms
> of mass anxiety-production, it is a purely demagogic and dishonest point.
> "Money for people and not for war," sounds great, but it ultimately reinforces
> commonly held notions that obscure the fundamental monetary realities of late
> imperialism--which the left is duty-bound to explain not exploit for polemical
> advantage.
>
> Money is neither a static nor a material value, but one that is ultimately
> symbolic of power, and its claiming-capacity fluctuates based on the realities
> and perceptions of power, as well as in response to speculative insults.
>
> US monetary supremacy in the world, upon which our imperial privileges rest,
> is directly dependent on our ability and willingness to wage war. Without that
> ability and willingness, the same dollars we are talking about will not likely
> be adequate for any of those alternative purposes under capitalist governance,
> because they would quickly become worthless. What do we tell the people then?



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