Re: [Marxism] Camejo to speak at CCNY

[Octob1917@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 9/25/2004 12:40:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lnp3@xxxxxxxxx writes:
It is rapidly becoming apparent to me that "Joe", aka Octob1917, (and in
all likelihood, aka Scotlive@xxxxxx, who unsubbed after a flame war with
Jurriaan) has been trained in sectarian politics and probably belongs to
some self-styled Marxist-Leninist group with a dozen members or so. He
is smart enough to keep that information to himself.

Marxmail was set up in order to break with sectarianism and small group
psychology. The subscription page also warns about striking Bolshevik
poses here. While Joe is obviously bent on sidetracking us with sterile
discussions of reform versus revolution, I have a higher obligation as
moderator to keep us focused on less abstract questions.

I strongly urge Joe, or Scotlive, or whoever he is, to try to suppress
his desire to draw lines in the sand between reformism and
revolutionaryism. If he wants information on where this kind of debate
takes place on the Internet or Usenet, he can contact me privately.


I agree that this particular thread has now run its course, however in the
above post you have seen fit to level what I consider some serious accusations
as to my credibility and position which I feel it is my right to respond.

What, I ask you, is Bolshevik about advocating the necessity of revolution as
the historical advance of the working class? This is the same position which
Marx advanced, which indeed all the great socialist thinkers advanced. Indeed,
if you could tell me an instance in history when the cause of the working
class was ever advanced without revolution, I would be most grateful?

It seems that just because I do not fall into line with your opinion on Peter
Camejo I am to be personally attacked.

 And I'm the one who's sectarian.

Yet from the participation in this debate it is obvious that I am not alone
in my assessment of Camejo, his politics and his approach.

Furthermore, regards your claim that I must belong to some self-styled
Marxist group of a dozen or so members, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you. 
Before
moving to the States I was a member of the Scottish Socialist Party, which is
a mass party encompassing many tendencies and which participates in electoral
politics (though unlike Camejo they do so as socialists with an avowedly
socialist program), and I am also a member of the Irish Republican Socialist
Movement, which again is made up of various tendencies. Here in the US I am a
volunteer with the IAC, which you may or may not know are one of the main 
organizers
for the upcoming Million Worker March movement.

Is a movement of rank and file workers sectarian?

It appears that some who participate in this discussion list are
intellectuals, who've come to left wing politics on university campuses. Fair 
enough.
There are others, however, who've come to the same politics after growing up in
poverty, suffering the daily humiliation and degradation of living on welfare,
of working in menial occupations, of being surrounded by drug abuse, alcoholism
and violence, all the shit which comes with life on a housing scheme, housing
estate or project.

Perhaps our different perspectives are a result of having come to socialism
from different ends of this spectrum.

Regardless, please do not resort to personal attacks in an open forum just
because someone disagrees with your analysis or position. This is uncomradely
and in my opinion constitutes an abuse of your position as moderator of this
list.

Respectfully yours


JoeD







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