[Marxism] Flashbacks on torture: excerpt from World Chronicle No. 922 recorded 14 November 2003

["Jurriaan Bendien" <andromeda246@xxxxxxxxx>]

PRICE: So, given the problems you have in terms of access. How easy is it to
get facts and statistics about how widespread torture is? The stereotype
that you have is that it's dictatorships, it's military states. What kind of
an over-all view do you have? VAN BOVEN: Well, I have in fact only a limited
capacity to investigate myself. I have one staff assistant, and in fact I
can only go on missions twice or three times per year. And we have 190.
LITTLEJOHNS: Because of lack of funds do you mean? VAN BOVEN: Yes, lack of
funds - lack of capacity. I have only one assistant. I am also a university
professor and do this in my spare time. So, there is lack of capacity. I am
therefore dependent largely on information I receive from non-government
resources. There are organizations like Amnesty International. LITTLEJOHNS:
Which can be suspect too I suppose? VAN BOVEN: Yes, true, but I have to rely
also on the credibility of that information that I receive, and that is
sometimes contested by governments. I have to be careful. If sometimes 2% of
my information is not correct, not accurate, they will also question the 98%
that is true, which is accurate. But I rely largely on information I receive
from a great number of non-governmental organizations, and I must say that
these organizations. there is this "Organisation Mondiale Contre la Torture,
World Organization Against Torture, that has a broad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      Page 8
Page 8 network of national organization that inform them and I have to check
it also, the reliability, to a certain extent, but at the same time Amnesty
International, Human Rights Watch, and so on, are all important partners,
Federation Internationale des Droits de l'Homme, and there are a good number
of organizations that cooperate with me. PRICE: And even the countries that
aren't directly involve, there may be indirect involvement. You talked about
the trade in instruments used for torture. How can that be controlled? VAN
BOVEN: That is still a new idea - how to get to grips with that. The
European Union in fact has done some work on that. They have drafted a
regulation, a council regulation in Europe, listing these types of
instruments that are specifically produced to inflict torture and to control
that of course within the legislative sphere of the European Union, there
are more possibilities than in the world at large. This is still a new
project, I am just starting on how to control production and trade of
instruments. It was in fact launched for by a country for political reasons
to embarrass the United States of America, but I still think that it is an
important issue. LITTLEJOHNS: Is the situation in South America, improving
now that there are more democratic governments? You've mentioned the bad
case of Chile before, but I supposed it's much better now. What about the
other countries of Latin America? VAN BOVEN: Well, I do receive also
information from countries that have reached now a level of democracy like
Argentina. There are still practices that give rise to concern, but
sometimes these practices are not only related to military dictatorships but
are sometimes deeply rooted in. And it is not only that torture is applied
for political purposes as it was under certain repressive regimes, but it is
often also applied to just criminals. There are prosecutors that want to get
that information out of the people. And of course, you have also in
countries like, Colombia; you have the problem of terrorism and also there
is this torture and it's a large problem. LITTLEJOHNS: Well the third degree
of course is not unknown in the United States, and some other western
democracies. Mr. van Boven, we're rapidly running out of time - thank you
for being with us on this edition of World Chronicle. Our guest is being the
UN's Special Rapporteur on Torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman and
degrading treatment or punishment, Theo van Boven. He was interviewed by
Philippe Bolopion of Radio France Internationale, RFI and Susannah Price of
the BBC. I am Michael Littlejohns, thank you for joining us. We invite you
to be with us for the next edition of World Chronicle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
      Page 9
Page 9 ANNOUNCER:Electronic transcripts of this programme may be obtained
free of charge by contacting World Chronicle at the address on this screen:
World Chronicle United Nations, Room S-827 New York, N.Y., 10017. Or by
email at: besa@xxxxxxxxxx programme is a Public Affairs Presentation from
United Nations Television. The views and opinions expressed on this
programme are those of the participants, and do not necessarily reflect the
official statements or views of the United Nations. GUEST: Theo van Boven UN
Special Rapporteur on Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading
treatment or punishment JOURNALISTS: Philippe Bolopion, Radio France
Internationale/RFI Susannah Price,
BBC MODERATOR: Michael Littlejohns "Investigating and Reporting on Torture"
*****
PRICE: So, given the problems you have in terms of access. How easy is it to
get facts and statistics about how widespread torture is? The stereotype
that you have is that it's dictatorships, it's military states. What kind of
an over-all view do you have?
VAN BOVEN: Well, I have in fact only a limited capacity to investigate
myself. I have one staff assistant, and in fact I can only go on missions
twice or three times per year. And we have 190.
LITTLEJOHNS: Because of lack of funds do you mean?
VAN BOVEN: Yes, lack of funds - lack of capacity. I have only one assistant.
I am also a university professor and do this in my spare time. So, there is
lack of capacity. I am therefore dependent largely on information I receive
from non-government resources. There are organizations like Amnesty
International.
LITTLE JOHNS: Which can be suspect too I suppose?
VAN BOVEN: Yes, true, but I have to rely also on the credibility of that
information that I receive, and that is sometimes contested by governments.
I have to be careful. If sometimes 2% of my information is not correct, not
accurate, they will also question the 98% that is true, which is accurate.
But I rely largely on information I receive from a great number of
non-governmental organizations, and I must say that these organizations.
there is this "Organisation Mondiale Contre la Torture, World Organization
Against Torture, that has a broad network of national organization that
inform them and I have to check it also, the reliability, to a certain
extent, but at the same time Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and
so on, are all important partners, Federation Internationale des Droits de l
'Homme, and there are a good number of organizations that cooperate with me.
PRICE: And even the countries that aren't directly involve, there may be
indirect involvement. You talked about the trade in instruments used for
torture. How can that be controlled?
VAN BOVEN: That is still a new idea - how to get to grips with that. The
European Union in fact has done some work on that. They have drafted a
regulation, a council regulation in Europe, listing these types of
instruments that are specifically produced to inflict torture and to control
that of course within the legislative sphere of the European Union, there
are more possibilities than in the world at large. This is still a new
project, I am just starting on how to control production and trade of
instruments. It was in fact launched for by a country for political reasons
to embarrass the United States of America, but I still think that it is an
important issue.
LITTLEJOHNS: Is the situation in South America, improving now that there are
more democratic governments? You've mentioned the bad case of Chile before,
but I supposed it's much better now. What about the other countries of Latin
America?
VAN BOVEN: Well, I do receive also information from countries that have
reached now a level of democracy like Argentina. There are still practices
that give rise to concern, but sometimes these practices are not only
related to military dictatorships but are sometimes deeply rooted in. And it
is not only that torture is applied for political purposes as it was under
certain repressive regimes, but it is often also applied to just criminals.
There are prosecutors that want to get that information out of the people.
And of course, you have also in countries like, Colombia; you have the
problem of terrorism and also there is this torture and it's a large
problem.
LITTLEJOHNS: Well the third degree of course is not unknown in the United
States, and some other western democracies. Mr. van Boven, we're rapidly
running out of time - thank you for being with us on this edition of World
Chronicle. Our guest is being the UN's Special Rapporteur on Torture and
other forms of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment, Theo
van Boven. He was interviewed by Philippe Bolopion of Radio France
Internationale, RFI and Susannah Price of the BBC. I am Michael Littlejohns,
thank you for joining us. We invite you to be with us for the next edition
of World Chronicle.

Complete text at: www.un.org/webcast/worldchron/trans922.pdf

For the interested reader, I noticed that the Harvard Human Rights Journal
has a detailed exposition of the nature of the problem:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss14/nagan.shtml

For a critical article on Dershowitz, see:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Youmans_Dershowitz.htm

Jurriaan



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