[Marxism] Howard Zinn interviewed by La Jiribilla in Havana

["Fred Feldman" <ffeldman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Here are two interviews with Howard Zinn who visited
Cuba last week to meet with performers who will be
bring his MARX IN SOHO to the island in the fall.

Thanks very much to Ana Portela for this translation. 
Readers with Internet access will prefer to read this
on the website where it's now posted together with all
the photographs from the Cuban media of Zinn meeting
with Cuban colleagues.
http://www.walterlippmann.com/zinn-cuba-5-2004.html

PLEASE REPOST THIS WIDELY. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


Walter Lippmann, Moderator, CubaNews list. http://www.walterlippmann.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/ 
=====================================================

LA JIRIBILLA
Revista Digital de Cultura Cubana

?MARX IS NOT DEAD? And I am going to try to prove it by bringing him
back on the scene. And from there I'll show difference the U.S. public
what Marxism is really about. Marx himself would explain the difference
between Stalinism and Marxism. I'll remind people what Marx's criticism
of capitalism was. I would demonstrate that these ideas have much to
with the United States today. In other words, that Marxist criticism
today is exact and current. Exclusive interview with the U.S. writer
Howard Zinn.



"Thank God, an audience! I am happy you could come. You
haven't listened to those idiots who said Marx is dead!
Well I am...and I'm not!" - Karl Marx says in the very
heart of Havana.

The audience to which this eternal party-pooper risen from
the dead refers is about a dozen people seated in the small Adolfo
Llauradó Theater in the central part of the City, Vedado. While the
actor embodying Marx moves and talks on stage, the audience divides its
attention from the performance and the silhouette set off by a faint
light of this tall and gray-haired man who, from his chair, keeps
jotting down notes in a notebook. It is Howard Zinn, the U.S. writer and
historian, who has come to see the production of his monologue Marx in
Soho by the Cuban actor and theater director Michael Cué

The US writer, Howard Zinn (center) with the group who will represent
his work on stage in Havana

Invited by the National Council of Theater Arts and the
Cuban Book Institute, Zinn takes advantage of his second
trip to the island to brush up on Cuban reality. His first visit was
during the 1970s with a group of Canadian tourists.

Among other places of interest, the 81-year-old writer
visited the Fine Arts Palace, the San Alejandro School of Painting and
the National School of Ballet. This interview was made in this latter
institution, after visiting its modern halls and installations in what
were described by the author of the People's History of the United
States as "a dance palace filled with princesses and princes. Here, the
author of the Zinn Reader and You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train,
talks of his theatrical work that the Cubans will now have the
opportunity to enjoy this coming June, as well as some subjects about
the current situation in the United States.

One of your students, the well-known novelist Alice Walker,
has defined the writer as a sort of medium ? How was Howard Zinn
inspired to revive Karl Marx?

When I was 17, I began to read Marx and Engels. At 18 I
began to work in a shipyard. Together with three other
radical young people, I organized the Young Shipyard
Workers Union. At that time, unions were very exclusive and young
persons could not join them. The four of us became a team and met once a
week. We read Marx and many years later, when I became a professor, I
gave a seminar on Marxism. I read a lot of literature on Marx and became
interested in his family life. For me to learn about him as a human
being is as important as learning of his ideas.

My first theater work was not about Karl Marx but about an anarchist and
feminist, Emma Goldman. That play was shown in several cities of the US:
New York and Boston, but also in London and Japan. Later, already
interested in the theater, I decided to write a play about Marx. I made
this decision after the fall of the Soviet Union because, after its
fall, everyone thought that Marxism had died. So I tried to tell the US
public: Marx is not dead and I am going to prove it by bringing him back
to the scenario. From there I would teach this same public the
difference between Stalinism and Marxism. I would remind them what
Marxist criticism of capitalism consists of. I would demonstrate that
these ideas have much to do about the US today. In other words, that
Marxist criticism of capitalism is still exact and current today.

Since I didn't want to only represent ideas, I added information about
the relationship between Marx and his family, a little bit of humor, and
a vision of what a new society could be. That is why I have Marx
speaking in the Paris Commune of 1871. The Commune is a small light.

What has been the reception of Marx in Soho in the United States? Didn't
they confuse you with Groucho Marx?

The US people know more about Groucho Marx than about Karl Marx. The
play has been shown in forty venues in the US, mostly for a university
public. The number of spectators has fluctuated from three hundred to a
thousand and the play has always been well-received, perhaps because it
presents Marxist ideas clearly and simply. It is a question of common
sense. The play is a combination of humor and experiences, human and
family, and one can even laugh at Marx. It is what happens when Jenny
laughs at him and Eleanor does the same. I think this is more attractive
for the public. Marx doesn't come on stage as someone who knows it all.

Is there a presence in US academies, the universities, is
his work studied?

Sometimes. Perhaps in one out of every hundred universities there is a
course on Marxism. There are many courses of political philosophy and
perhaps a few days are set aside for Marx. Usually his ideas are not
taught with exactness.

Perhaps in one out of every hundred universities t here is
a course on Marxism. There are many courses of political philosophy and
perhaps a few days are se t aside for Marx. Usually his ideas are not
taught with exactness.

Zinn shared opinions with a group of Cuban historians and writers in the
Hotel Ambos Mundos.

Can t his lessening of Marx be intentional?

It is ignorance.

In your work you touch on many ideas that are current. One
is the allusion you make of the Marx character about the cowardice of
the press. What is your opinion on the cowardly role of the press today
in the US in relation to the war in Iraq?

There are two parts of the press in the US. One is
television and the powerful newspapers that generally
support the position of the government, especially its positions on
foreign policy. For example, none of the important newspapers say that
the US should withdraw from Iraq. They say things should be done
differently; they propose getting the UN involved, a UN that they
ignored from the very beginning. They say that they need more soldiers
and don't have more soldiers. "We should have a better plan to occupy
Iraq", but there is no form of basic criticism. This is what happens in
the powerful press. There is also the opposition press that has a much
smaller circulation. For example, The New York Times reaches more than a
million persons while The Nation reaches a hundred thousand persons. The
great television chains reach 30 million persons while the smaller cable
television only reaches several thousand persons. The same happens with
progressive radio stations may reach, perhaps, 50 thousand persons.

After a book such as that by Richard Clarke or by Bob
Woodward, revealing t he lies and evil machinations of the present
administration, how is it possible that a scandal in the style of
Watergate has not occurred?

The ignorance of the US public is very hard to explain.
They know there were lies but, perhaps, they are used to
these lies. They see on television and in the newspapers
that there are things that are not the truth, but don't
follow it up with the conclusion that the invasion of Iraq
was wrong. Bush can say: "Well, we didn't find weapons of
mass destruction but we had to get rid of Saddam Hussein."
They are always changing the reason for the invasion, and
if one of them is false, they invent another. In a national survey about
which television channels were most watched by the population, it was
revealed that the majority watch news on the Fox chain. Of these, 80%
say that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. In other words,
the great mass media confuse their viewers. You will never find real and
direct criticism of the war in Iraq on these stations. It is interesting
to note that, in the United States, with these television and
large-circulation newspapers, the people are the least-informed in the
world.

In your play, Marx quotes the well-known words of Lincoln
that says that you fool some of the people but not all of
the time. How long will we have to wait for the people of
the US to stop being manipulated?

This process has already begun. The number of persons supporting the war
is declining. When asked if the war was worth it, only 35% of the US
public answers "yes". This is different from what occurred six months
ago or three months ago. Every day there is a more striking difference
between the editorials and the news reports. While the editorials do not
make fundamental criticism of the war, the news articles report on the
increasing number of casualties of the US forces. These past weeks, as
you know, reports have come out on the torture of Iraqi prisoners. When
the US people see this history time and again, it has an eroding effect
on their belief in the government. Yes, Lincoln was right, but he didn't
say how long it would take.

You have shown yourself as an optimist on the idea that the people can
change the world if we do it all together, no matter how insignificant
it may seem. Of course, the intellectuals are part of that people. What
could they do to change the world?

The intellectuals can only do part of the job. When a
nation changes, it is not because of the work of the intellectuals. Yes,
the role of the intellectuals has an effect, but the greatest effect is
the reality. When it reaches the people. There is the example of the
movement against the war in Vietnam. At the beginning, two-thirds of the
US people supported the war. Two years later, this same number opposed
it. What happened in the meantime? Of course, the intellectuals with
their articles and teachings had an effect, but the most important
factor was the reality. It was reported in the great mass media. An
example was the publication of the photographs of what really happened
in Vietnam. Sometimes the intellectuals have an exaggerated view of
their own importance. =========================================
Translated by Ana Portela for CubaNews La Jiribilla, Vol. 3, Number 157,
May 8-14, 2004 http://www.lajiribilla.cu/2004/n157_05/157_02.html
=========================================

Actualizado 4:30 P.M. (hora local) La Habana, viernes 7 de
mayo del 2004. Año 8 / Número 128

ÓRGANO OFICIAL DEL COMITÉ CENTRAL DEL PARTIDO COMUNISTA DE
CUBA

LIBERTAD PARA LOS CINCO PRISIONEROS POLITICOS DEL IMPERIO

Cada día con usted en: http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu /
http://www.granma.cubasi.cu / http://granma.co.cu

The Human Reality of War Changed My Life Confessions made
to Cubans, by one of the most prestigious American
historians, playwright and activist against imperialist
wars. PEDRO DE LA HOZ

Howard Zinn has a scar in his soul as a veteran of the
Second World War. Enlisted by the Air Force as a
bombardier, his mission was to drop heavy and deadly bombs
over German cities. Upon his return to the United States he thought he
was a hero until he learned of the atrocities of the nuclear explosions
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and he looked out on the real world

?We had defeated German Nazism" ? he comments ? "Italian Fascism and
Japanese Militarism, but we soon learned that fascism continues to
exist. We defeated Hitler?s racism but in other parts of the world and
in my own country, it existed. Later is the fact that, from the air you
don?t see or feel anything, the enemy is an abstract idea. When I
learned of the human reality of war, my life changed.?

This 82-year-old man who moves with youthful energy across
the United States, calling for an end to the occupation of Iraq, shared
these thoughts with an incorruptible intellectual honesty. Three decades
before he did the same during the war in Vietnam and last year he signed
the Call to the Conscience of the World in defense of Cuba. His activism
is an assurance of the great prestige of his historical and academic
work. His book, The People's History of the United States (1980) has
been sold for over 20 years in almost forty editions and over 800,000
copies. He has also done high-ranking analytical journalism in the
alternative press.

His lightening quick 48 hour presence in Cuba is in
response to an invitation of the Cuban Book Institute and
the National Council of Theater Arts since the Cuban Social Sciences
publishers will soon issue one of his most renowned works and the actor,
Michalis Cué will perform his successful monologue, Marx in Soho, now a
classic of contemporary US theater.

Zinn lives intensely his Havana hours talking with intellectuals,
visiting historical places and having contacts in Havana University with
a promise to return soon.

HISTORY OF A PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO HISTORY

When did you feel the need to rewrite the history of your country?

?When I had the certainty that the official history, that
in the texts books, inculcated in us a mythical dimension
of our nation. And that lies had been added upon more lies
on certain events. I want to tell it from the point of view
of the victims, the soldiers sent to war, the workers who
were exploited for the purpose of swelling an enormous
wealth. Do you want a greater lie than insisting that, by
the end of the 19th century, the United States helped the Cubans to win
their independence?

How has your book been received? Have you been accused of
not being objective?

?Let?s answer the first part. The book has had a better circulation than
I expected. But if you look at things carefully, you get an idea at how
capitalism works. The publishing house is part of the Rupert Murdoch
conglomerate, a brutal example of the right. But when people began to
find out that the book offered a different view of history, the
editorial house did not hesitate to promote more sales. Profits are
profits and that is the first law of the system. As to the objectivity
of history, I think that, in this matter, it is not also desirable.
Those who call themselves objective lie because they pick events and
cover up their taking of sides. I do not hide to
say: this is my point of view, it is not the only one, face
it and make your own conclusions.

THE IRAQ BLIND ALLEY

How do you think the people of the United State feel about
the current situation in Iraq ?

I think that increasingly more people are tired of this war
and understand that it is an operation of occupation and
not a liberation, as proclaimed by the official propaganda.
The dead beginning to arrive are a heavy burden and the
effect of a resistance grows and has converted the
occupation into an impasse. Unfortunately, many of those
who oppose the war do not do so for ethical reasons; rather secondarily.

Will you talk of what you have seen in Cuba ?

It is very necessary. If the average person of the United States learns,
first hand, the daily life in the island, the advantages the Revolution
has promoted, they would stop to think in clichés.

TRANSLATED BY ANA PORTELA
http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/2004/05/07/cultura/articulo02.html




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