[Marxism] Floor toppings or dessert polishes? (was: Socialism or Barbarism)

["Jeff Rubard" <jeffrubard@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:55:51 -0600
> From: "Tony Abdo" <gojack10@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Marxism] The Future Arrived Yesterday- "Socailsim or
>       Barbarism"      Obsolete As Our Choice?
> To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <Sea2-F12KULPEhGD1Xy00027e2c@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Carrol, in his defense of 'pessimism', raises that old marxist idea, that
> it
> is 'socialsim or barbarism' that faces humankind.     He does this in a
> certain opposition to the previous marxist 'optimist' attitude that
> socialsim could only win out.   This positive attitude of the traditional
> school of marxism  has been made obsolete by events though.   It is no
> more
> the mark of a perssimist that barbarism will occur before socialism ever
> arrives, it is now a reality.

Well, to speak of views that flourished in the 70s, it is perhaps a bit
dangerous to speak of barbarism as a definite evil given its more
common contrary and somewhat defensible to wonder whether
Socialisme ou Barbarie was really offering an "exclusive" choice.
I'm sure many of the older people on the list are familiar with
the views of Marshall Sahlins ("researches" may be the wrong word,
in light of similar sentiments found in Veblen's *Instinct of
Workmanship*), and for those that aren't Sahlins attempted to
demonstrate that pre-agricultural societies often enjoyed a much
higher standard of living than nearly all "civilizations",
hunter-gatherers laboring fewer hours and having better diet
and health.  Given this attitude towards recorded history
("things aren't what they used to be, and what's more, they
never were") it is unclear to me what taking a firm stand in favor
of millenarianism profiteth a political position -- and now here
we are enjoying the benefits of a "civilizational" perspective
without having to quite license every single usufruct as fructuous
("Progress through Order" and "safety in numbers" being common
enough refrains already).



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