RE: [Marxism] Marx as Left of the Marxists

["Tony Abdo" <gojack10@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I like your attitude about being a socialist, Juriaan.   It seems that you
have decided that being a socialist transcends being a marxist, which you
reject.   I too feel that while there once might have been reasons for
situations like the split of socialists into camps of 'anarchism' and
'marxism just like with the divisions into Trotskyism, Stalinism, and
Social Democrat,  anarchism vs marxism now has become a battle and contrast
more and more dated and irelevant.   I still consider myself a marxist, but
a marxist that has almost as much respect for ecologism and anarchism as I
do for marxism itself.   This attitude is akin to your belief that being a
socialist and anti-capitalist is something more and better than being a
marxist.

Each of those 3 camps (eco, anarho, marxist)  have rigid structural beliefs
though, that often hinder a synthesis of a more relevent, unified
anti-capitalist theory and activity.    And it is from out of the
difficulties of being an American marxist, that came the soul searching that
provoked my original comments.     It was damn difficult to survive being
pro-socialist within the mindset of 'vanguardism'.   And it merits some
discussion, because all of us on this list have pretty much had to deal with
much of the same as I went through.   What does marxism currently offfer
that is different to youth today, than what it ultimately offered the youth
of 30years ago?

Unlike the Right, the Left does not have a varied group of churches on every
other block to propagate its ideology.    The church is a much bigger social
institution for the Right than the Left has ever really managed to create
anywhere.    It meets the needs of families and individuals in many ways in
society, and a Leftist (as do atheists) has to try substitute other
strategies to cope with society, minus the aid that the church often
delivers.

Many a marxist might ask why I bring up the churches in a discussion of the
difficulties of being a marxist?     Simply put, I find that marxism as a
movement often promises individual comrades pie in the sky when you die, but
then sabotages their ability to function as individual marxists in a social
setting, or group.    Marxism, in its current state, atomizes its adherents.
  You, Juriann, also touched on many of the aspects of what this is and
means, and I feel common ground with you on that.

One of the biggest turnoffs for me as a marxist has beeen, the often
over-intellectualized and militarized attitudes that constantly prevail in
our circles.    But individuals in any social grouping need more than that,
and that is Leninism's biggest failure as organizational form.    It
originally formed as a theory of how to maintain underground functioning in
a period of extreme stress to Russian society.    As such, it had to
maintain an underground military aura of tough resistance at all times, and
was primarily an organization for men.     This militaristic mindset of
underground Leninism is now merged in the minds of most people, in their
idea of what a marxist stands for.

This model is dead today unless all hell breaks out, and has little to say
to those of us who function in a less militarized setting, especially in the
advanced capitalist economies.     Classical marxist concepts of Leninism
along these militaristic, authoritarian, and macho veins need to be
constantly fought against here, or marxism will remain unappealing to most
people in today's environment.     Marxism needs to find a more socially
supportive and even churchlike way of organization, as opposed to its
semi-underground attitudes that still remain dominant in marxist circles,
most especially with the sects.

Marxism has to find a way to be an organizational movement that helps people
survive in the hostile capitalist society.   Even when the revolution is not
eminent.    That means concentrating on being socially supportive of its
membership, rather than confronting them in a militarized and humiliating
manner.    As such, as Juriaan said, Marx definitely is Left of the
Marxists.    I am a marxist and a socialist, principally because Marx
predates the influence of a fortified 'Leninism' on our movement.

Tony
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Juriaan..
Consequently, though reading the material, I personally rejected Marxism
long ago, although people still sometimes falsely label me as that, and I
subsequently rejected contacts with all but a few Marxists who are creative,
independent thinkers capable of good human relations. But this does not mean
at all, that I do not think Marx's thought is valuable. I think it is very
valuable, indispensable even.

As far as I am concerned though, there is only socialism or communism,
Marxism does not exist. Socialism and communism are about the achievement of
a just, egalitarian, ecologically sustainable and free society which
abolishes social classes and exploitative forms of association. The thought
of one man is completely insufficient for that purpose, it requires the
contribution of millions, even billions of living individuals.

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