Re: Ruling class Jews

["David Quarter" <davidquarter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Date sent:              Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:06:40 -0500
From:                   Yoshie Furuhashi <furuhashi.1@xxxxxxx>

>
> Since you didn't include who commissioned the above "study," I
> Googled the Net and found the source at
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Support_Israel/message/9896>: the
> American Jewish Committee.  That's not a "study," David -- that's a
> Zionist propaganda tool.
> --
> Yoshie

  Ooh...I see. Cause a group might prefer a particular research
finding or another, that somehow will translate into data being
manipulated to get this result?

It's like saying that since a Marxist would prefer that the working
class see the ruling class as their main enemy, then somehow any
Marxist survey conducted on attitudes towards the ruling class
amongst workers is not to be taken seriously.

First, who conducts surveys on a topic as heated and political as
the middle east _without having_ a  stake in the result, or taking a
position on the issue?

 The answer is obviously: Very few people,  if any at all.

Second, when an 'independent' academic study is conducted to
survey Jewish attitudes towards  Israel are their not similar stakes,
institutional pressures?

Are you for a second suggesting that academics are not burdened
by the worry of finding the "right result", have no pressure put on
them from persons or groups funding their research to find a
particular finding or that academics have no pre-existing views
which may influence how they conduct their research?

Third, can you see anyone *other* than a group with a stake in a
particular outcome in the middle east "conflict" funding a project
like an opinion poll on "Jews attitudes towards Israel"? I've never
heard of grants being handed out to academics to conduct polls on
such a topic. Perhaps, I'm wrong ( I could do journal check to see if
this indeed the case; in fact, I think I will do so later this week).

That being said, since you imply -- and Les S. asserts -- that the
majority of Jews are NOT Zionists (Les came up with the figure of
22%, although has yet to substantiate this claim) please show me
a poll -- impartially conducted of course --  demonstrating this
claim? THAT IS TO SAY, showing that most American "Jews don't
support Israel's right to exist"???

The answer is: there are no such polls.

 Show me one that demonstrates that majority of Jews support "a
two state solution", while silmutaneously demonstrating that the
majority of Jews are not Zionist -- that is, that majority of Jews
don't support Israel's right to exist.


The answer is : there are no such polls.


IN other words, to prove your argument that the majority of Jews
DO NOT support the right of Israel to exist, you would have to
demonstrate that most Jews aren't in favour of the two state
solution; or said differently, that most Jew are for the disbandment
of Israel. The fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of Jews,
aside from a tiny minority of leftists, have no desire to see Israel
dissapear.

This is an indication of the Zionist beliefs held by the majority of
Jews; not least the majority of American Jews.


Concerning the issue of _going to war with Iraq_, which you
claimed_ the majority of U.S. Jews opposed_, here is interesting
poll conducted_before_the war showing in fact the opposite to what
you claim; that is, that 59% of Jews were favour of attacking Iraq.
Quite amazing when you consider that supposedly "most Jews"
(according to you and other list members) aren't Zionist. At least, it
would seem to me that if you are going to be anti zionist you are
VERY, VERY unlikely to be also *pro Iraq war*...

You will of course argue that "the poll is bias" b/c of who
conducted it. To which I would respond: why would the AJC have
any less of stake in fudging it's data to prove the opposite
conclusion given that traditionally racist groups have used findings
such of this to peddle Jewish consipary theories about the
supposed desire of all Jews to see the American ("Jewish
inspired") conquest of the middle east?

In any case, show me a poll(s) showing the opposite (i.e., that
most Jews didn't *initially* support attacking Iraq?)

DOQ


Most U.S. Jews support war against Iraq, poll shows
NEW YORK (JTA) -- A majority of American Jews -- 59 percent --
approve of launching a military strike against Iraq to remove
Saddam Hussein from power and support President Bush's
handling of the war on terrorism.
Those were among the results of the American Jewish Committee's
Annual Survey of American Jewish Opinion. The AJCommittee poll
of 1,008 Jews nationwide was conducted by phone between Dec.
16 and Jan. 5 and carried a margin of error of plus or minus 3
percent.
Despite support for Bush's war on terror, 48 percent of Jews said
they're Democrats, 18 percent Republicans and 32 percent
independent. Asked about their political views, 37 percent ranged
from extremely to slightly liberal; 34 percent were moderate; and
29 percent ranged from extremely to slightly conservative.
The AJCommittee also found:
*Seventy-eight percent believed Americans will have to surrender
some personal freedoms to make America safe from terrorism.
*Eighty-six percent supported expanding spying on groups under
suspicion.
*Sixty-five percent favored greater camera surveillance on streets
and public places.
*Sixty-seven percent favored a national I.D. system for U.S.
citizens.
Still, 62 percent rejected racial or religious profiling. Only 35
percent favored such law enforcement methods.
In the survey, more than half of Jews favor war with Iraq, although
62 percent fear it would increase the risk of terrorism against the
United States and 56 percent said it would likely blow up into a
wider Mideast war.
People feel "the threat of terror is real, yet that you can't turn the
other cheek to terror and to Saddam," said Steven Bayme, the
AJCommittee's national director of contemporary Jewish life.
Jewish hopes for an Israeli-Palestinian peace have continued to
erode, reflecting a downward slide AJCommittee polls have tracked
since the second Palestinian intifada erupted in September 2000.
Asked about their hopes for peace, 49 percent said they were less
optimistic than one year ago -- up from 42 percent in 2001.
Distrust of Arab intentions is also growing. When asked if the
"Arabs" want Israel's destruction rather than the return of the West
Bank and Gaza, 82 percent agreed and only 15 percent disagreed.
One year earlier, 73 percent agreed with that statement and 23
percent disagreed.
Despite those rising concerns, 49 percent of U.S. Jews favored the
creation of a Palestinian state. Approximately 47 percent opposed
one, though 98 percent felt Palestinian Authority President Yasser
Arafat is not doing enough to stop terrorism.
For more JTA stories, go to {HYPERLINK "http://www.jta.org"}http://www.jta.org





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