Re: Fictitious Capital Website (related ideas) Reply to Louis

[Les Schaffer <schaffer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Lou wrote:

> the standard rejoinder is that Spain was swimming in gold and silver
> but did not become capitalist like Great Britain.  There are two
> responses to this. One, gold and silver might have entered Spanish
> seaports, but it filtered its way into other banking centers in the
> 17th century, like Amsterdam and London.

In the bookstore tonite i by chance opened up "Empire : How Spain
Became a World Power, 1492-1763", by Henry Kamen, published just last
month. in 30 minutes reading Kamen seems to back up much of what Lou
says.

things i learned:

1.) Spain's empire building was a callaborative effort w/ a number of
growing business centers in Europe.

2.) Gold and silver did flow into Spain then right back out again to
nascent credit centers in Western Europe (i think he mentions austria,
the netherlands, and a few other places). also, i gather a lot of the
spanish armada, for example, was built outside Spain proper.

3.) Kamen makes the point that the "decline" of the Spanish empire is
in reality an illusion: once you focus on the specific underlying
mechanisms which went into creating the Empire, its clear a "mode of
production" (my words, not his) was slowly evolving across much of
Europe and that power simply (not the right word!!!!) changed hands
from one power center.

Kamen opens w/ a nice quote from Brecht:

   The young Alexander conquered India.
   All by himself?
   Caesar beat the Gauls.
   Didn't he even have a cook with him?"

I don't know what Kamen's political affiliations are (and some of the
reviewers on Amazon seem to be calling him to task for denigrating
Spanish history), but it seeems like a good read.

after thinking about Lou's comments some, i also realize i need to
expand my "equation":

  commodity  production/profit =   wage labour
				 + inexpensive raw materials
				 + production infrastucture

the last term would then include factories, modern cities (water,
bridges, transport, bank/financial systems), machinery, etc. it was
the infrastructure that was built out of gold/silver plunder from
lands abroad as much as anything else.

how come i never was taught this stuff in history class in high
school????


Kamen's book at Amazon:

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060194766/qid%3D1056507549/104-3071990-2930352


les schaffer