Re: Reply to Bill - good Marxist party in Australia ?

["bill" <mikabill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I have worked in the same job for 25 years and have been a member of the
PKIU (now part of the AMWU) Last year I was elected both as a delegate and
on Regional council. I don't have the wealth of experience in union life yet
(if I did I wouldn't have asked the Question) I just want to learn Marxist
values etc no hidden agendas
bill weller


> very interesting question - and I wonder what the hidden agenda is?
>
> Bill asks the wrong questoin - he should ask - "what party for good
Marxists
> in Australia?"
>
> I don't know what union Bill is from, and what experience he has had but
> there is no true worker based party in any advanced western capitalist
> state.  A true Australian marxist party has yet to emerge.
>
> We currently have well intentoined by tragically anti-Marxist groups,
> setting themselves up in complete contradiction of the Communist
Manifesto,
> as sectarian organisations opposed to working class organisations.  The
> International Socialists and the DSP are examples of this.  The old
> communist party was initially set up as an sectarian organistion (as a
> faction within Sydney trades union movement) but later sought to work with
> the broader labour party.  This was blocked by federal labour party
> intervention (1946?).  This is one key point about the experience of
> Australian marxism.
>
> In my view, Australian marxism, ie communism, has been forced into an
> unnatural, dysfunctional, sectarian position outside the mass labour
> movment.  Nonetheless Australian marxism had huge success but only when it
> worked in non-sectarian fashion within the working class after WW2.
> Sectarian splits in the 1960's destroyed Australian marxism.
>
> So the problem boils down, for true Marxists in OECD countries, to working
> in whatever mass parties have substantial support within the working
class,
> or working supportatively in Australian trade unions.  In other words it
is
> not appropriate for Australian marxists to set up their own sectarian
> organisations opposed to other working class parties, except when there is
> no other alternative.
>
> Marxism is for a class not a sect and you cannot have a vanguard outside
and
> opposed to the workers movement.
>
> Because western capitalism has created unnatural and temporary class
> relationships through exploitation of the rest of the world, western
working
> class parties have all generally been subverted by the middle class - so
> called gentrification.  This certainly applies to Australia.  But we don't
> judge marxist tactics from this simple standpoint.
>
> The only organisations that are true working class parties are trade
unions
> and trades and labour councils.  If Bill informs us what experience he has
> had with any of Australia's best trade unoins, he may receive an
appropriate
> answer.
>
> Otherwise he should just continue his window-shopping in the wasteland of
> the sectarian left.
>
>
>
> Chris Warren
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 1:04 AM
> Subject: Forwarded from Bill
>
>
> > Can anyone give me some help finding a good Marxist party in Australia
to
> > join? I was a member of the Socialist Alliance and am currently in the
> > Greens but am seeking a true worker based party. I am currently looking
at
> > Workers liberty, Socialist alternative and the Socialist Equality party
> >
> > thanks Bill
> >
> >
> > Louis Proyect, Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org
> >
> >
>