On Scots/Welsh Labour

["D OC" <donaloc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Mass labour parties in the English-speaking world, empirically described.

That just sets the scene for what is an Anglo-centric analysis. Much of it
is agreeable such as the appreciation of the revival of the 'dinosaurs' of
the British TU left.

>When considering the immediate relationship of forces and set-up in
trade-union-based labour parties, it's convenient to break them into three
groups: England and Wales together, Scotland and Ireland together,
Australia, New Zealand and Canada separately.

Lumping England and Wales together is a crime in my book. The situation in
Wales is far more like that in Scotland than England. The fact that Bob
comes out with this attests to his lack of local understanding - perhaps you
have read the history books too much but reality on the ground shows that
Plaid Cymru are making inroads into traditional Labour heartlands such as
the Rhondda valley and Llanelli. I didn't even see any mention of Plaid in
your analysis and that again betrays your anglocentricity.

SCOTLAND and IRELAND

> Scotland and Ireland are both a bit different to England and Wales. The
electoral system in Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Irish republic all
have a powerful proportional representation element. In fact, in the Irish
republic and in the Regional Assembly in Northern Ireland, there is only
proportional representation.

This is factually incorrect. The six counties have a regionalised
Single/Multiple Transferable Vote system as does the South. In Westminster
elections we have first-past the post - as with MEP elections - which are
multiple first past the post. The Welsh assembly has a similar system as
does the Scots Parliament. These do have a stronger PR element but it is a
long way from PR. As for this justifying the exclusion of Ireland and
Scotland from our Welsh comrades - that's insufficient.

>In the Irish republic, the Labour Party is historically a weak formation
electorally although it has considerable involvement with the trade unions,
and there is also a strong republican tradition. The main bourgeois
republican party, Fianna Fail, competes with Labour for an electorate with a
similar class social composition, and there's also a certain tradition of
Sinn Fein and Stalinist Workers' Party candidates doing well in elections.

There is something missing here - an appreciation of the Free State's
neo-colonial position. The Labour Party is The 'Partitionist' Labour Party -
standing only in the twenty-six counties and ignoring as much as possible
the difficulties of most areas outside Dublin. I could level similar
criticisms of virtually every other party aside from Fine Gael, Fianna Fail
and the PDs. As for Labour's strong Republican tradition - well there might
have been but most of them got drummed out of the Labour movement years ago.
The most militant leaders have been expelled from the Trade Unions too (c.f.
Mick O'Reilly).

> The electoral system provides for multiple TDs from electorates. So a
Labour
candidate or even a Sinn Fein or left candidate has some chance of election.
This is the electoral and social context in which the Militant group,
through diligent mass work, has elected a TD in Dublin.

This would be okay apart from the fact that in the last elections Sinn Fein
topped the poll in three constituencies out of the five we won - the system
works against us as we don't get 'transfers' from anyone aside from the
Greens. Labour isn't beyond topping polls either and the SP TD Joe Higgins
did outstandingly in his Constituency. Therefore, your use of the electoral
system to justify an anglocentric separation into three groups is not
justified. I believe that the core issues are the relation of these
countries to dominant imperialist forms and the impact that these forms have
had in popular consciousness. That is what links Ireland and Scotland - to
an extent - but it also links Scotland and Wales.

> In Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein is an almost total electoral obstacle to
any
socialists who run against it independently, and it gets about 20 per cent
of the vote, and the slightly more conservative SDLP gets about 20 per
cent - the other half of the Catholic nationalist vote in the province.

I'm glad we're such an obstacle - it is only a matter of time until that 20%
is replicated in the Free State too - we went up 2.5% in the last 3 months.
The 'slightly more conservative' SDLP are facing Armageddon in May.

> Scotland is a different situation again, with some features in common with
Ireland, but some different features.

This is a tautology.

> It has a very old independent socialist electoral tradition. The red
Clydeside for many years was represented by a significant number of
Independent Labour Party (ILP)
members in the British parliament, sometimes in the British Labour Party and
sometimes outside it, and one of the only two Communist members of
parliament in Britain, Willie Gallagher, was elected and re-elected several
times, in the mining district of Fife.

> Scotland is treated differently from Wales (which has a Socialist
tradition every bit as strong as the Scots) - did no-one ever hear of the
Red Rhondda or Little Moscow? The social and economic state of Wales today
is worse than that of Scotland.

When devolution took place recently in Scotland, the new Scottish assembly
was constituted on the basis of proportional representation, and the
aggressive and effective agitation of the Scottish Socialist Party, led by
the charismatic Tommy Sheridan, was both located in an old Scottish
electoral tradition and facilitated by the proportional representation
arrangements in the new Scottish assembly.

Again, let's consider Wales. Plaid Cymru, which retains a commitment to
decentralised socialism, got swings of over 11% in Merthyr Tydvil and Neath
in the 2001 General Election (labour strong-holds). The party has 17 AMs, 4
MPs and 2 MEPs - quite some tally (they are in voting terms the second
biggest party in Wales and form the official opposition within the
Assembly). Okay, so Cymru Goch will always find them falling short but they
weren't even mentioned in your analysis.

I just want to clarify the problems you have in your analyses in Ireland,
Scotland and Wales. Your anti-nationalist bent is warping your appreciation
of the changes which are occuring within those societies and which have been
facilitated through the limited devolution afforded by New Labour.

News just coming in of an RUC raid on SF offices in Stormont - clearly, the
Securocrat establishment are creating political cover for the withdrawal of
Unionists from the Assembly. The British are making claims about an IRA
intelligence operation within the NIO - the civil service/state apparatus.
Seems like a pretty blatant political move to me - particularly as one of
the people lifted was extensively involved in our Police Strategy (a good
friend of mine too).

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2298675.stm

D OC.


~~~~~~~
PLEASE clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.