Re: Fw: excuse me?

["Eliyanna (Erin) Kaiser" <erin@xxxxxxxxxx>]

>  'Tis true. There are Roman Catholics here in Chicago who are very outspoken
>  about their views about abortion (they're very, very against it); yet, they
>  also proudly call themselves feminists. Do you want the name of their
> parish? Incidentally, I did mention in my earlier post that that position
> was an extreme one. I didn't claim it to be typical. I was just pointing out
> the range of beliefs that are called feminist nowadays.

Fair enough, feminism is a broad philosophy and analytical framework, I
think that's true of any political ideology. I think, however, that my
defensiveness to the some-anti-choicers-even-call-themselves-feminists
comment was not misplaced. There are many, many, people that call
themselves "socialist" who I would much, much prefer not to be associated
with. Clearly, as socialists and as reasonable human beings, we do not take
seriously arguments from red-baiters who would accuse of being responsible
for, as an example, the massacres of dictators who have called themselves
"socialist". We understand that for what it is, red-baiting, devoid of
analysis, and clearly for the purpose of confusing the issue at hand.

In a similar vein, I get suspicious when an argument that we have to
"patient" with relentless anti-feminism on this list is met with the
response that feminism is very confusing because, after all, there are
anti-choicers who call themselves "feminists".  I agree with all your
points around bourgeois/liberal feminism. Yes, there are rich liberal
feminists who have no class-consciousness or analysis around anti-racism.
There are/were feminists who feel that they have the right (as straight
female feminists or political lesbians) to dictate to the
lesbian/bi/queer/trans/gay community how they should live their lives.
There are, as you contend, many, many, bizarre people who do all sorts of
whacky things in the name of "women's liberation". (But then of course we
could go to a Sparticist meeting and decide which movement has weirder
elements on the fringes...) Basically, I question why you bring up the
issue when I think that we are all politically savvy enough to understand
that anti-choicers use the label "feminist" as an anti-feminist tactic,
much like "anti-capitalist" white supremacist organizations.

I felt and understood the exasperation of the comrade who wondered where
people found so much time to list the many faults of feminists. I have been
very silent on this list for many months after getting into several
exhausting debates over some very disturbing sexist comments that were made
on this list.

Chris Brady may have hit the nail on the head on where I (maybe others?)
diverge from many other Marxists on this list:

"who does not embrace feminist demands as their own
In the context of socialist revolution..."
"...it would be contradictory to do otherwise."

I don't agree, I never have, and I doubt I ever will.

I embrace feminist demands in and of themselves. I make those demands at
the same time I make class demands, race demands, etc. It cannot all be in
the context of a "socialist revolution" because I have never believed that
women's/queer oppression stems from class - on its own. I have rather,
always maintained that there is such a thing as "patriarchy", independent
of "capitalism".

I am copying below part of a short piece (still in a draft form, naturally,
so trash me lightly!) that I did for YDS on heterosexism trying to (sigh)
summarize my understanding of one of the socialist feminist positions on
sex-gender/economic systems and how they interact. It is, naturally, a
personal viewpoint.
------------
...To understand heterosexism, it is first necessary to talk about the
concept of a whole sex/gender system. Socialist feminist theory describes
the interlocking nature of economic systems and sex/gender systems. Our
current economic system is that of capitalism, our sex/gender system is
that of the patriarchy. Some feminists (including socialist feminists) have
chosen to view the patriarchy as an extremely old, but not inevitable,
'essential', sex/gender system. Other feminists (including socialist
feminists) see the patriarchal sex/gender system as having irreversible
biological origins (generally reproduction) but believe that the task of
the feminist movement is to reform its effects.

The patriarchy describes the institutionalized and systemic oppression of
women by men who either actively or passively participate in its
maintenance. The power and privilege that men (the male sex class) gain
from this system is both social, through male control over the social
construction of gender roles, and material, through men's sexual,
reproductive, and labor-based exploitation of women (the female sex class).
As the sex/gender system of patriarchy intersects with the economic system
of capitalism, conditions distinctive to the merging of these two systems
emerge. The social construction of gender roles and the material
exploitation of women become specific to the economic needs of capitalist
exploitation, in addition to the material/social exploitation by the male
sex class. Capitalism needs, after all, an efficient means of reproducing
the working-class, and the male/female sex class system can provide this.
It is important to understand that' socialist feminists are not suggesting
(as a traditional Marxist would) that any form of women's oppression such
as, for example, sex-trade exploitation, will cease to exist with the
demise of capitalism. Socialist feminists instead postulate that the
economic system that we live under affects the way in which the sex/gender
system is ultimately expressed (and vice versa).

Many socialist feminists believe that one of the primary expressions of the
merging of these systems is the formation of the traditional family unit
and of specific socialized gender roles that maintain it (although it is
important to note that the origins of the traditional family are widely
disputed). It is from this expression that a capitalist/patriarchal
institution of 'heterosexism' arises...
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