Re: On the Loyalist Problem was Re: Prods

[Paul Moloney <pmoloney1969@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Congratulations to Ed and Domhnall you successfully
thrashed me. (Gary, I hope you don't mind me using
your term) Sorry for dragging ye into it but it was
addressed to Gary. Although perhaps you missed bit in
the first bit of my reply.
> You will probably notice that I have used a number
of
> sources to compile my reply.

I admit the piece was lazy and almost totally lifted.
Nearly as lazy as challenging somebody to a debate and
beforehand stating that discussion here could lead to
the most sterile of Trotsky versus Stalin type
impasse.
My response was to show that it was possible to
equally
have a Trotskyite versus Trotskyite impasse.

What was I being challenged on  - my understanding of
British imperialism. I felt insulted that it was
assumed that, because I came from a particular
tradition, I wouldn't understand. Let us not forget
that this debate started out of, with sweeping
generalisations from Gary like:

> I have no doubts at all about the level of stupidity
> and ignorance among the Protestant working class.

All Gary offered was how they were like Suharto or the
whites in Zimbabwe, by "them" he means the
Protestants, no distinction between Protestant or
Loyalist which Danielle (whom I may disagree with)
outlines the distinctions fairly well.

Tell me how that sits with the recent words of Martin
McGuinness:
"I did come to understand that the unionists were as
much victims of all this as we were and that in order
to resolve the issues we were going to have to work
together".

McGuinness went on further to say
"what is absolutely vital in order to tackle the
plague of sectarianism that affects us in the North of
Ireland is the continuation of a successful peace
process................
political leaders on all sides coming together,
leading by example, showing that they are comfortable
with one another, whilst at the same time protecting
the integrity of their own political positions."

"We have to collaborate together, we have to
co-operate
together and we have to recognise that we need an
honest approach. What this process needs, absolutely
critically, is David Trimble's willingness to get to
know Gerry Adams and myself...... We want to get to
know him and of course we want to help him."

What say you Ed?  Does the above seem like a
willingness to "accommodate to Imperialism"
Or Gary, is this, along with Alex Maskey laying
wreaths commemorating Irishmen who died in the Somme
too much?

I have already stated that I thought that the WP had
lost itself in the past twenty years but that doesn't
mean that I think everything that the Official
movement did was wrong. I accept that large swathes of
members turned away from opposing British Imperialism.
But the same can be said of any organisation. Phil
Flynn is a typical example.  That doesn't mean that
everybody from that tradition should be stigmatised
with the same slur. I believe that the tactics of the
Provisional movement were wrong completely and utterly
for the first ten to twelve years. (I don't think much
of them after that either but they have to be given
credit for where it is today.)
IMO there was damn all politics. The taking of the war
to Britain did more to set back the struggle for both
national unity and the hope of workers uniting. The
community that Domhnall alludes to bringing
successfully with them wasn't there then. It was only
after the hunger strikes and the subsequent
involvement with politics, the ceasefires and the
'route-map to the future' that increased the size of
that community. Sinn Fein's increasing acceptance of
the primacy of politics has to be supported even if I
would wish for more red than light green populism.

To the rest who play the 'correct programme of
anti-imperialism' card (and Danielle I don't include
you in this because I find the recent IRSP Bodenstown
statement and Ard Fheis resolution a departure - is it
possible that this may have come about by the space
created by the GFA however flawed the agreement may
be) I have yet to hear anything substantial put
forward.

I'll try and refrain from peevishness in future.
One word to Domhnall the comment about the
Official/SPI
branch - witty but lacking in depth. I take it this is
because I worked with them during the elections.
At the moment I am working with a number of
non-aligned socialists on the No to Nice campaign.

There's a good chance I will be working with Sinn Fein
members during the Nice Referendum as part of PANA. I
doubt that, that will make me a Provo. Only the WP
would make such a conclusion.

Fraternally

Paul.

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