On the Loyalist Problem was Re: Prods

[Gary MacLennan <g.maclennan@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Listen Paul,

O'Neill accused me of religious bigotry and advocating a holocaust type
solution for the Loyalist Problem.  Anything I said pales by comparison
with that. Wouldn't you think as a Marxist that to call someone a genocidal
bigot is worse than saying f--k off?

I do not read his posts any more and after all that is my right as a member
of the list. He of course is equally free to ignore everything I say.  But
our dispute does have a real and important basis.  It began with my
celebrating the presence of Palestinian flags in Catholic areas.  Paul, no
doubt as a Marxist you would celebrate that too - would you not? I
contrasted this with the presence of the Zionist flag in Loyalist areas.  I
drew the conclusion that this showed that unconsciously, implicitly or
instinctively (pick your adverb) the Loyalist community was
pro-imperialist.  that is where O'Neill stepped in.  He in effect said the
Zionist flag gesture was apolitical and just done to annoy the
catholics.  It did according to him not signify that the loyalists were
pro-imperialist.

Now here you have a clash of interpretations over a series of facts which
neither O'Neill or myself deny - Palestinian flags in Catholic areas and
Zionist flags in loyalist areas. Now in passing I have to confess that I
assumed that O'Neill agreed with me that the Palestinian flag is a sign of
anti-imperialism and that the struggle of the Palestinian people is a
heroic and a noble one.  I am making the same assumptions, Paul, about your
attitude in this instance.

Whatever the case I cannot see how one could decide conclusively between
the clash of interpretations over the flags.  However and this is really
the nub of the disagreement between O'Neill and myself, it seems to me that
the struggle of the Irish people and the IRA in particular was an
anti-imperialist struggle.  Moreover in that struggle the Loyalists were
indeed loyal.  Loyal to whom, you might ask  (but dare not)- why of course
British Imperialism.

It is actually clarity on this issue which Marxists have to strive for.  It
is no coincidence that the school of Marxism spawned by Hobsbawm  et alia
chooses carefully to ignore the whole question of British Imperialism in
Ireland. They are so anxious to denounce Nationalism that they support the
British Army.  They also have to turn a very blind eye to the nature of
Loyalist politics and the role of politicians like Ian Paisley and and the
support he has within loyalist areas.

You have been honest enough to put the Official Sinn Fein card on the
table, Paul and we can debate that, if you wish.  But history has consigned
Official Sinn Fein and the Official IRA to the dustbin and in many ways I
think discussion here could lead to the most sterile of Trotsky versus
Stalin type impasse.


However, despite that danger, Paul, let me issue a challenge to you.  Let
us forget the name calling and by the way I live in Qld but am Irish.  Let
us debate British Imperialism - that will I believe explain to us the
nature of Loyalism. And also give us a new way to reconfigure the problem
which Zak originally posed - What to do about the Prods?

regards

Gary




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