For the Record II [Re Pugliese post]

["Hunter Gray" <hunterbadbear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Michael Pugliese made an extremely erroneous post a couple of days ago on
ASDnet and elsewhere.  I've spent a great deal of time this past year on
ASDnet responding to various kinds of attacks -- many quite personal and
scurrilous. Had this not involved another individual, it's possible I would
not have wasted my time on this.  It's unlikely that anyone, again, will
ever read on a List anything this relatively involved from me.  Consider
this the Anatomy of a Whatever.

Although at no point did I mention Max Elbaum or his  just out book
[Revolution in the Air], Michael Pugliese certainly did.  And, from my
perspective, this is written in fairness to Max Elbaum and his book.  I
don't know Max [or his book] -- but I'm quite sure he's quite OK. [In
looking over some things from his book, just a few minutes ago, I do have a
few comradely and non-intense quibbles with regard to his discussion of the
excellent Southern Conference Educational Fund during my '60s time period
with the outfit.  But they are not heavy.]

And, I should add, this is also written in fairness to myself.

A couple of days ago, Michael Pugliese made this very strange and abrupt
post, "SCEF and CPUSA." This was many days after that particular ASDnet
discussion had concluded.  His post was quite accusatory -- and
scurrilous -- with respect to me.  Here is part of it -- and it's reproduced
in full at the conclusion of this present post of mine:

==========================================================
>From Michael Pugliese   6/24/02

Remarkable, Hunter. You miscontrue my cut and paste from,
"Revolution in the Air, " by Max Elbaum, published by Verso,
the publishing house of New Left Review as more scurrilous red-baitin'
. . .LoM and LRS, fought some pretty vicious
battles internally, inside the Rainbow, but, unlike you they
never denied their underlying strategic/ideological line. . ."  etc

Michael Pugliese

=======================

Yesterday morning, as I prepared to quickly respond to this, ASDnet [and
Topica generally] were moving to close down for a 24 hour period. I had no
opportunity to go to ASDnet and review the pertinent correspondence of many
days ago. I knew that Pugliese had posted several things during that well
past SCEF etc discussion and I had responded to one and one only -- his
initial post. Thus, yesterday,  I limited my response to a few new sentences
which dealt appropriately and quite critically with his just out accusatory
post -- and I followed that with the only discussion that I had posted on
ASDnet regarding the Southern Conference Educational Fund [" Southern
Conference Educational Fund -- the realities."]  I attach a part of  all
that at the conclusion of this -- omitting most of my discussion of my
extensive civil rights work with SCEF:  material which has already been
twice posted.

 Thus that had been my one and only response  -- to the initial thing that
Pugliese had posted many days ago --  and which he had  then many days later
identified as something from the Elbaum book. But, as I recalled, the thing
to which I'd responded had lacked any specific identifying name. And  I had
mentioned this omission thusly when, in my response, I used the phrase "from
whomever."

So, yesterday, I posted Pugliese's accusations, my brief response of several
sentences to those, and that discussion of SCEF which I had posted several
days before to his initial thing [which he later claimed came from the
Elbaum book.]  In my response of yesterday, I certainly made no mention of
Max Elbaum or his book.

But I was aware that, after his initial attack of many days ago, and
following my one and only response, Pugliese had posted other things on SCEF
etc, which I had simply ignored.  Late this morning [Wednesday], when Topica
and ASDnet reopened for business, I went back to the posts of June 18.  And,
sure enough, there had been, after our initial exchange, two following posts
from Pugliese to which I had NOT responded at all.

The post to which I had responded was an unsigned and garbled thing
presumably attached to the Georgia State University Archives:
============================================================================
====
Pugliese:

 SCEF AND CPUSA    Michael Pugliese
        Jun 18, 2002 07:52 PDT
        http://wwwlib.gsu.edu/spcoll/Collections/Labor/L1991-13.htm
============================================================================
====

His second post -- to which I had not responded -- was a continuation of his
first post plus a hodge-podge which started out emphasizing Stalin; and then
brought in some of my own  Left writings etc which are posted on our large
website www.hunterbear.org
:
============================================================================
====
Pugliese:

 RE: Southern Conference Educational Fund [the realities]    Michael
Pugliese
        Jun 18, 2002 11:29 PDT

         Here is all of that text from the URL I provided.
      http://wwwlib.gsu.edu/spcoll/Collections/Labor/L1991-13.htm

      At the very bottom are pamphlets by Joseph Stalin! When O'Dell
      testified at the SISS mention was made of the 175 pamphlets seized
      from his rooms in a raid. One was a International Publishers  " etc

============================================================================
====

And the third Pugliese post -- to which I had most definitely not
responded -- was indeed from the Elbaum book.
============================================================================
=====

Pugliese:

SCEF and the October League    Michael Pugliese
        Jun 18, 2002 12:34 PDT

          From, "Revolution in the Air, " by Max Elbaum, published
      by Verso, the publishers that put out New Left Review. Elbaum,
      i9s a former cadre of the M-L group, Line of March. (Or, March
      In Line, " as wags said at the time.)
      Pg. 198, "In '74 and '75, October League cadrebegan to concentrate
      in the SCEF, a progressive Southern organization that had a a
      history of courageous organizing against racism stretching back  etc

============================================================================
=====

So the post that Pugliese made yesterday, charging, among other things, that
I had trashed Elbaum's book, was quite inaccurate indeed. I believe this
puts Pugliese into clear perspective.  And, although in my response of
yesterday, I made no mention of Elbaum [since no identifying name was on the
one and only thing to which I'd responded], I have felt obliged to post this
substantial clarification.

Here is a part of my response of yesterday -- which contains the one and
only earlier response I made to Michael Pugliese on SCEF:  Southern
Conference Educational Fund [the realities]    Hunter Gray
        Jun 18, 2002 10:36 PDT

:
============================================================================
======
Note by Hunter Gray [Hunterbear]:

This is in the context of a discussion which, initially, was "SCEF and
CPUSA" -- and then my "Southern Conference Educational Fund: the realities"]

This is going to several Lists. Note this shabby and very strange [but
hardly
unprecedented] statement to me:  "unlike you they never denied their
underlying strategic/ideological line."  I leave the possible implications
of this to the creative faculties of anyone who wishes to speculate on my
"line."  I do not.  My trail to the Big Rock Candy Mountain is unique.

In any event, at some point on Monday evening, the following post in which
the foregoing peculiar statement is found -- making reference to what had
been
apparently an essentially ended issue on  ASDnet -- abruptly showed up on
the ASDnet webpage.  Simply to keep the record straight,  I post it --
followed by my previously posted [and my only] discussion of the  role of
the Southern Conference Educational Fund during "my era."   Hunter

==============================
>From Michael Pugliese   6/24/02

Remarkable, Hunter. You miscontrue my cut and paste from,
"Revolution in the Air, " by Max Elbaum, published by Verso,
the publishing house of New Left Review as more scurrilous red-baitin'
   Max Elbaum, I have never met, but from the mid-80's forward
when I moved to Oakland, I've known more than a few cadre from
Line of March, which along with the League of Revolutionary Struggle,
another new communist movement formation, was active in the Rainbow
Coalition when I was. LoM and LRS, fought some pretty vicious
battles internally, inside the Rainbow, but, unlike you they
never denied their underlying strategic/ideological line.
   Ethan Young, who you might know from other lists, like socunity,
used to be a book editor at Monthly Review, and has done alot
to help publicize the Elbaum book. It is blurbed by figures like
Betita Martinez, who is an acquaintance and Van Jones of the
Ella Baker Center.

Michael Pugliese

============================================================================
>From Hunter Gray [Hunterbear]:  "Southern Conference Educational Fund: [ the
realities]"  6/18/02

The link posted earlier this morning on ASDnet -- "SCEF and CPUSA" -- is
simply another instance of substantive misinformation. This is the case with
the post's "label" -- and the historical outline given by the link [from
whomever] is certainly replete with errors and omissions. The problems that
confronted a rapidly waning SCEF in the early 1970s especially had nothing
to do one way or the other with CPUSA -- which can certainly not be blamed
for those! These difficulties involved other groups and issues of which I,
frankly, know little . . .     etc

============================================================================
===

Hunter Gray [Hunterbear]





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