Re: Prods

[Gary MacLennan <g.maclennan@xxxxxxxxxx>]

At 11:51  24/06/02 +0000, you wrote:
> Hello Gary,
> It is all well and good to decry the backwardsness of the loyalists.
> Nobody here, least of all me, has ever claimed loyalism to be anything
> other than the most reactionary ideology parading around these parts. I
> was not objecting, in fact, to your characterisation of loyalism asd
> slavish, I reject the idea that working class proda here are instictively
> slavish, and that why they turn to loyalism.




Zak

I was not saying that they were instinctively slavish.  I repeat I was
using the Hegelian master-slave paradigm to describe the relationship
between the British, the Loyalists and the Catholics. Within this paradigm
the Catholics are the slaves.  The Protestants the slaves who want to be
the masters of slaves and the British are the masters.

Now that might sound all very complicated or whatever, but Marx too used
the master slave paradigm in his work. One should note btw that Hegel
emphasised that the slave was more creative than the master and this was
one of the fundamental contradiction though which she would achieve liberation.

So I repeat Zak, I am not calling the Protestants "slavish" nor am I
calling the Catholics slavish either.

Now that is cleared up I hope.


> I know who was fighting British Imperialism, and your strident rhetoric
> convinces me no more or less. I still refuse to believe that it was
> working class prods in east belfast who ran the British State, who reaped
> the benefits of the British state. Perhaps you would like to explain why
> east belfast is such a shithole these days?


I have not been in East Belfast for many, many years, but when I did the
unemployment levels were negligible compared with those in Catholic areas -
perhaps you could update me here. As comrade Proyect keeps saying some
statistics might help the discussion.

But let us assume that levels of unemployment in Protestant areas have sunk
to the same levels of that in Catholic areas.  This would be a first in N.
Ireland with the possible exception of the Great Depression, and I do not
for a minute believe it.  But let us make the assumption. East Belfast
would have become a shit hole and you ask why. Well the answer is fairly
simple.  The Old Economy industries in Ulster provided the employment for
Protestants.  These have been hardest hit by globalisation etc. The British
State would probably now feel that it can afford to let the staple
Protestant employing industries slide.

Similarly the War Keynesian policy which provided Protestants with so much
employment in the security services would also be winding down.

The harsh truth then is that British policy in Ireland is
changing.  Imperialism is assuming a different face and no longer has the
same need of its old ally the Loyalist community. As a Marxist I feel
deeply for the allies of British imperialism who now appear to have fallen
on harder times. Absolutely distraught I am.  The bad news from East
Belfast is distracting me from feeling sorry for the white farmers in
Zimbabwe. Such a shame.

regards

Gary


~~~~~~~
PLEASE clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.