-To the Moderator/Joe Freemen

["Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

-To the Moderator/Joe Freemen

 S Chatterjee <schatterjee2001@xxxxxxxxx>

Joe,
Thanks for your self criticism. At the present moment of time, Marxist
theory is faced with a deep crisis which is not being acknowledged but
glossed over; i.e., its apparent inability to explain the *true* cause for
the collapse/failure of the socialist states. That is, in the dialectical
development of human society from primitive comminism - slavery -
feudalism - capitalism -socialism --- etc, what has happened in the USSR
and China is socialism - capitalism, i.e., an apparent inversion of the
principles of historical materialism laid down by Marx and Engels.

^^^^^^^

CB: Sid, I wonder if Marx and Engels would not have considered the reversals in 
individual countries as possible. If the whole world had been socialist and 
then reversed, that would confound the Marx/Engels predictions. But for 
individual countries to ebb and flow, and for more powerful capitalist 
countries to win a first round with countries economically backward compared 
with them seem to fit within the Marx/Engels scheme.

And in fact the current situation is a kind of confirmation of the famous 
Marx/Engels dictum that socialism must begin in an advanced capitalist country. 
That has always been interpreted to mean that the first overthrow of a 
capitalist government had to be in an advanced country. Now we see that another 
historical development is logically consistent with Marx and Engels' principle: 
 A first socialist revolution in a backward country will not be sustainable in 
the face of the military and economic assault and counterrevolutionary storm ( 
lasting decades if necessary) of the persisting capitalist devils in giant 
capitalist countries. In other words, world events are consistent with Marx and 
Engels predictions. So, I don't think events overturn the principles of 
historical materialism, or the laws of develoopment of history and nature (!)

^^^^^^



That is, a higher form of development has degenerated to a lower form
which violates the law of development of history and nature. Please note
that it is not simply a temporary restoration (like the monarchial
restorations in Europe) - it is a wholesale regression back to an earlier
decadent mode of production.

^^^^^^

CB: I'm not sure that I note that, in fact.


^^^^^^



 If capitalism can arise out of socialism (for
which hundreds of millions fought and many millions gave their lives) - a
profoundly demoralizing and pessimistic concept, then what hope can
socialism offer to the world working class? Unless a true explanation can
be offered for the failures of the 20th century revolutions, there is not
much hope for progress and empiricism will flourish ('Without
revolutionary theory, there cannot be a revolution' - Lenin). The
Trotskyists lay the blame on the 'Stalinist bureaucracy' and the Maoists
blame the rise of 'revisionism' for the reversals but these are not really
explanations but denunciations. What was the *material* basis of this
revisionism -

^^^^^^^^

CB: Capitalism prosecuted the biggest wars and series of wars of all times. 
Engels the military scientist would have understood this. Marx the economist 
would h




 this is the chief question to which a answer has to be
sought. And for that, we will have to look at the *stage* of development
of the productive forces in the socialist societies (both of which were
products of the two-stage revolutions which idea was first formulated by
Marx and Engels). The stage of development of productive forces (which
grows spontaneously) is hardly  emphasized in current Marxist theory.

Second, what is the likely trajectory of world capitalism in the light of
the revolutionary significance of the TPRF? In the western countries, a
new stage of development of the PF can be glimpsed on the horizon, and
which you have pointed out extensively in your previous posts. This new
stage is the stage of automation of the PF and will have profound
consequences - decrease of value of commodities, and a consequent decrease
of total surplus value which will lead to a crisis of profitability. Is
this the direct/classical road to socialism as Marx and Engels had
forecasted for the industrialized countries as opposed to the
indirect/two-stage road in the developing countries?

And what is the connection of imperialism in the advance to socialism by
both of these two groups of countries.

Sid

~~~~~~~
PLEASE clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.