Re: Question for Phil

["Gorojovsky" <Gorojovsky@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Lenin would have clipped all extraneous text before replying to a message, so 
should you.
~~~~~~~~~
En relación a Question for Phil, 
el 22 Oct 01, a las 10:13, Xxxx Xxxxxx dijo:

> Don't be a Menshevik: Clip all extraneous text before replying to a message
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> > (Something Xxxx X. should keep in mind when making analogies between
> > Argentina and imperialist Germany.)
> > 
> > Philip Ferguson
> > 
> > 
> Philip, the analogy was in regards to social democrats supporting the
> imprisonment of anti-war socialists. Do you agree with Nestor that Argentine
> socialists who opposed the 1982 war should have been jailed? Is it really that
> difficult a question for you to answer?
> 

Xxxx, this stupid way to deal with serious things will take you nowhere (but 
for a seat in the British Parliamet to better serve the interests of the 
British bourgeoisie).

Your question is absolutely misleading and it could be considered a textbook 
example in chicanery.

I have already explained to you that the whole establishment here was against 
the war with England. Not surprising if you consider the semicolonial character 
of Argentina (which you have gently allowed to consider as a possibility).

In this situation, the dynamics of a confrontation with imperialism implies a 
revolutionary transformation of the structures of society. These 
transformations can be achieved in two ways: a) through a national war, which 
makes things easier for socialists who want to push ahead along the road of 
revolutionizing property relations (expropriations of the property of the class 
enemy are immediately perceived as a matter of national necessity), or b) 
through a civil war. In fact, every colonial war is, at least in the colony, a 
civil war of sorts.

Establishing the possibility that opponents of the war be jailed implies an 
immediate danger for the ruling classes. This is the basic context that you 
insist in "forgetting".  Inverted commas account for your silly chicanery.

I have already explained on a rather lengthy posting that the position could 
not have immediate effect, and that the first target would NOT have been 
"socialists".

But allow me to inform you that among the personnel of the 1976 dictatorship 
there were prominent "socialists" (in the Ministry of Education, and in the 
Embassy at Portugal). These "socialists" would have been hit in the process of 
caging enemies of the national-revolutionary effort.

But, how can you believe that such a person is a "leftist" is beyond my best 
attempts at psychology. You are sticking to an abstract question in order to 
display my position as a "class colaboration" of sorts, as a criminal and 
heinous attempt at having gorilla murderers put "leftists" to jail.

This is all that matters, in fact. Imperialism acts by _creating_ its enemies.

Unfortunately, I am very much aware of that tactics, which has been repeatedly 
used in Argentina. So that I will not allow you to use it here on the list.

And, I am not dodging the answer. On the contrary, it is _you_ who must 
demonstrate that these people are true revolutionaries. And this is precisely 
what you fail to do. So that leave your care about "leftists" who hate their 
own working class in your closet, or admit in public that between a movement of 
the Argentinean masses and the "leftists" who side with imperialists you defend 
the latter.

At least, this will bring you out of chicanery.

> Andy
> 
> 



Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
gorojovsky@xxxxxxxxxxxx