Re: Was: Spy plane crisis ; now Zionism = ?

["Xxxx Xxxxxx" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> I have a few problems with Xxxx's objections, which may have stemmed from
the
> limitations of a short panel covering a series of complex and
interconnected
> issues.  I don't think Finkelstein in any way reduces the issue of
addressing
> Jewish suffering to the "materialistic desires of some Jewish elites" --
on the
> contrary, he accuses those elites of making it possible for the
individual
> experiences of Holocaust victims to be reduced to a monetary debt paid
off in
> the form of aid to Israel and to Zionist organizations. I think he sees
the
> suffering and loss of individuals getting lost in the assertion of a
Jewish
> collectivity that perpetuates the treatment of Jews as an
undifferentiated group
> set apart from the societies they live in.

yes, that is true. but during the panel he did not clearly articulate the
points you mention above. In fact, I agreed more with Judith Chomsky when
she raised the questions of  1) who will organize the reparations? 2)what
agencies will be responsible for collecting the money? and 3) who decides
who gets what? Openly claiming that that these questions are irrelevant for
Jews, Finkelstein said that reperations always went to the pockets of
Jewish elites.

 > Criticizing the misuse of the idea of reparations is only "politically
> incorrect" if you think that the _racist opponents_ of reparations create
the
> only political context that you need be concerned with. The fact is that
there
> are always those who will exploit claims for reparations,

To me, this is besides the point. There will always be elites who are gonna
exploit the issue of reparations or misuse it for their hidden political
agendas. That, we should strongly _oppose_. However, one needs to make a
distinction between the misuse of reperations in particular and demand for
reperations in general. For example, I, myself,  is a strong supporter for
reperations for blacks, American Indians and Palestinians. If people want
some form of recognition to be paid  in the form of money or other
social/cultural  forms, I don't think that it is terribly wise to question
these demands _in principle_. That the questions of 1) who demands the
reparations in the name of oppressed people 2) who organizes the process of
collecting reperations 3) who benefits from it and 4) who gets what and how
ARE  questions we need to keep an eye on and criticize when necessary
(especially if money goes to elites rather than to sufferers). This being
the case, Finkelstein does not make such a distinction between what is
necessary in principle and abused in practice, and seems to reject the
notion of reperations for Jews at all (or any other group that has been a
victim of genocide)

>or for just remedies
> for any injury, for their own material or political ends. Whole
professions and
> industries are built on this fact. Of course, if everyone who agreed with
the
> stated agendas of politicians and religious leaders (never greed,
opression, and
> exploitation but always justice, the common good, and peace) refrained
from
> looking behind the rhetoric to see what was done in practice, we'd be
unlikely
> to be having this discussion on a Marxism list.  I don't buy the idea
that you
> ever refrain from criticism because a lot of people are too credulous and
> gullible to be able to distinguish between rhetoric and reality.
Finkelstein is
> devoted to the idea that vehement disagreent forces us to support our
claims
> with evidence. He knows he needs to get his facts right because his view
is an
> extreme minority position that will be relentlessly attacked,
particularly on
> the grounds that Mine cites of giving "a negative image of Jews" as if
having
> one image of Jews, positive or negative, made any sense at all.

Finkelstein never talks about the progressive things that Jews have
achieved. Not even once. Plus, he does not talk about the issues of
anti-semitism, which, in my view, he is supposed to touch upon as a Jew. He
keeps on talking about the abuses of anti-semitism critics. He is obsessed
with the idea of reperations (and Zionism in general) and exploitation of
Jewish suffering by Jewish elites. That bothered me during the panel. Guess
he is trying to become another flash name by taking advantage of this
issue.

I was also surprised to hear him openly _saying_ that N. Chomsky was a
Zionist. I don't if this is true, frankly, but I thought he was going
overboard by labeling everyone he does not like Zionist.


> Finally, one shouldn't get the idea that Finkelstein reserves his
critique for
> Jews who have exploited the Holocaust reparations claims.  He shows, for
> instance, how the sleazy former Senator Al D'Amato has made hundreds of
> thousands of dollars brokering some of these deals
>
> Those interested in reading excerpts and reviews of The Holocaust
Industry can
> find them at http://www.normanfinkelstein.com
>
> Stuart
> stuartwl@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>