Kosova Albanians (Re: Saddam, Kurdistan and Kosovo (Re: Questions for Xxxx (was: When to support nationalism?))

[Xxxx Xxxxx Xxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Xxxx dijo:

>Barzani and Talabani  forces  have also been collaborating with *US* forces to
gain autonomy from the Iraqi government. Accordingly, it is no wonder that they
are collaborating with the Turkish military who collaborates with US against
Saddam. Reactionary Kurdish opposition, Turkey, US share the same enemy: Saddam.
The 1991 uprising and the humanist intervention, which established a
_proctected_ zone in Northen Iraq, led the Kurdish opposition to proclaim a
federated state under the supervision of Allies, as I noted previously. Will you

tell me that Saddam is an imperialist agent too because he opposes this
federation now?

Johannes dijo;

> >In regard to Saddam: Certainly his attack on Iran after the Islamic
> >Revolution coincided with imperialist interests. Furthermore I think Saddam
> >had a share in smashing the Iraqi CP.

Comrade, I was not talking about Saddam's position towards Iran after the
Islamic revolution. Political circumstances have drastically changed by then.
Now that the Islamic revolution is almost over, due to more pro-western Khatami
forces coming to power, Iran has coincided with imperialist interests. History
changes as imperialist plans over the middle East change.Currently, Saddam is
the target. Iran is not *the* issue. After all, Iran does not have a good
reputation of supporting the Palestinian national independence. Recently, it has
declared an open acknowledgment of the peace process, which is nothing but a US
& Israel mandate over Palestine.

>
> >On the Kurdish statelet: in my eyes it is as much of an state as the Kosovo
> >protectorate and has nothing to do with any kind of self-determination.
>

Yes. I say above that *protected* federal state in Northern Iraq proclaimed by
the Kurdish opposition (Talabani&Barzani forces) is completely an imperialist
creation and has nothing to do with any kind of self-determination for Kurds.


>
> >
> > > >me advocating some sort of autonomy.
> > > >In this respect the Kurdish question is similiar to Kosovo: Denial of
> > > >self-determination and imperialist interference in the name of
> protecting
> > > >minorities within existing states.
> > >
> >
> > A sectarian mistake.. Kosovars were not a colonized nation. Yugoslavia was
> *not*
> > an imperialist state.
>
> >OK, here are the parallels: Turkey is no imperialist state and according to
> >you the Kurds are no colonized nation.
>

I was not drawing a prallel between Yugoslavia and Turkey. Yugo under Milo did
*not* cooperate with imperialist powers. That is why he was overthrown and
replaced by US backed  Kustanica forces. They disunited Yugo, and got it. Now,
there is a mandate over Yugo. In the case of KLA, didn't it run Kosovo under
NATO occupation? In Jared's interview below, some anti secessionist Albanians
themselves are admitting that US was heavily involved with KLA, and KLA forces
got support from US & Germany? Wasn't it  a little bit bizarre for KLA  to press
for secession when Yugoslavia was being bombed? It seems those pro-seccessionist
demands *coincided* with US interests to divide Yugo.

>
> > Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA)  was a proto fascist movement
> > backed by the US .
>
> >I think this statement is as sectarian as saying Turkey is a fascist state.
> >Anyway  I doubt there are any new arguments in the discussion about the KLA,
> >so that discussion leads nowhere.

Here is more info on KLA from Jared Israel's web site:


http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm

Note from www.emperors-clothes.com. The following excerpts are
 taken from an interview with pro-Yugoslav Albanians, driven from
 Kosovo by the KLA, transcribed and edited by Greg Elich. Further
 editing by Jared Israel. Please feel free to duplicate. Please include
 all text including this note.]

              Kosovo Albanians:
           The Other Side
                          9-22-99

      "My father was killed two years ago by the KLA terrorists.
      One day before I left [i.e., fled from] Kosovo, a woman came to
      my flat and said that if I told people my father was killed by
      Serbs, I could have a high-ranking position in the Kosovo
      Liberation Army, the KLA. The US is heavily involved with the
      KLA, they work closely together. What can one think when one
      sees Madeleine Albright, President Clinton, [KLA leader]
      Hasim Thaci together, and Albright gives Thaci a kiss? We
      accuse Mr. Clinton for the crimes Thaci has committed, not
      only against Albanians in Kosovo, but against all ethnic groups.
      Mr. Clinton is indirectly connected with the murder of my
      father." (Albanian leader Fatmir Seholi, Belgrade, 8/9/99)

 Interviews are with Faik Jasari, Corin Ismali, and Fatmir Seholi, all
 members of the Kosovo Democratic Initiative.

 Comments are by: Biljana Koteska, First Secretary of the United
 Nations Law Projects Center in Belgrade; Bajram Haliti, Secretary of
 the Republic of Serbia Secretariat for Development of Information on
 the Languages of National Minorities, and editor of "Ahimsa"; Jovan
 Damjanovic, President of the Roma organization in Yugoslavia.

 Interview conducted by Barry Lituchy, Joe Friendly, Ayman
 El-Sayed, Ken Freeland, Jeff Goldberg and Gregory Elich, members
 of the North American Solidarity with Yugoslavia Delegation.

 Belgrade, August 9, 1999

 FIRST INTERVIEW

  Faik Jasari, President, Kosovo Democratic Initiative,
 representative at peace talks in Rambouillet, member of the
    Temporary Executive Board in the pre-NATO Kosovo
                        Government

 Lituchy: Would you tell us a little bit about the Democratic Initiative?

 Jasari: This is a new political party, formed only last year. Our
 position was for Kosovo-Metohija to stay in Yugoslavia, organize
 humanitarian aid for people, and oppose secession [from Yugoslavia].

 Freeland: How many people does this party represent?

 Jasari: We have 30,000 members. During the NATO aggression, we
 tried to encourage people to stay in Kosovo, not to leave. We helped
 people with food, medicine, blankets and so on. If anyone had trouble
 we tried to help.

 [Since the NATO occupation began] about 10,000 members [of our
 party] have left Kosovo, about 20,000 remain. Many have been
 kidnapped or tortured by the KLA {EC Note: Kosovo Liberation
 Front which is now essentially running Kosovo under NATO
 occupation.}The refugees went to Serbia and Montenegro.

 Lituchy: Are you a refugee?

 Jasari: Yes, of course. I had to leave on June 18th. Members of the
 KLA were showing photos of my family and me to people, taking the
 pictures from home to home. One of my colleagues, Cafre Cuka, from
 Pec, was kidnapped. We still [know nothing] of his fate.

 Lituchy: What did you leave behind?

 Jasari: Our flat, all our furniture and belongings. My wife and I
 worked 34 years, now we have nothing. Nothing.

 Lituchy: No assistance from the United States?

 Jasari: No assistance from any organization. The government of
 Serbia arranged [accommodations].

 Lituchy: Were any members of your family attacked?

 Jasari: No one from my family. The KLA didn't have time. The KLA
 is looking for me, even now. If they find me, they will kill me.

 Freeland: Was KFOR {EC Note: KFOR is the name for the NATO
 operation in Kosovo.}

 Jasari: KFOR does nothing to protect us. They don't do their job.

 Lituchy: Did you have discussions with KFOR?

 Jasari: I sent an open letter to Mr. Kouchner [UN special
 representative for Kosovo] to discuss the situation in Kosovo and
 with my party but I received no response. Where is democracy and
 pluralism in Kosovo? I can't go there. I can't take part in the political
 process. Where is democracy?

 Lituchy: Approximately how many Albanians were forced out of
 Kosovo by the KLA?

 Jasari: About 150,000. About 200 were killed.

 Lituchy: Tell us a little bit about the KLA.

 Jasari: Initially the KLA was a separatist organization and then
 became a military organization. They killed loyal Albanians, Serbs,
 also Albanians who held public office.

 Lituchy: What happened at Rambouillet?

 Jasari: During 1998, the [Yugoslav] government tried to meet with
 KLA leaders 17 times, but the leaders refused. When Western
 countries asked Yugoslavia to meet the KLA in Rambouillet,
 Yugoslavia sent representatives.

 Lituchy: Did they ever meet face-to-face?

 Jasari: Only once, at the first meeting with Jacques Chirac.

 Lituchy: An introductory meeting?

 Koteska: Yes.

 Lituchy: Why no negotiations?

 Jasari: Our representatives tried to meet them face-to-face every day
 but they refused. They did only what the United States told them.

 Lituchy: Did you ever walk up to one of the KLA people and say,
 'why can't we discuss this?'

 Jasari: We couldn't even meet them in the hotel. We only had
 meetings with American and British officials, their Western
 supervisors.

 Lituchy: Whom did you meet with from the United States?

 Jasari: Ms. [Madeleine] Albright, Mr. [James] Rubin and Mr.
 [James] Hill. They told us to sign our names to the paper drafted by
 the United States. In this paper it was written that Kosovo must be a
 republic [i.e., independent of Serbia]. At first, they thought the
 delegation from Yugoslavia wouldn't go to Rambouillet. Later, they
 saw that wasn't true, and when they also saw that not only Serbs, but
 also Roma, Albanian and Egyptian representatives were in our
 delegation, they were shocked.

 Lituchy: The Americans?

 Koteska: Yes.

 Jasari: There were only three Serbian representatives and one
 Montenegrin in our delegation.

 [French Foreign Minister Hubert] Vedrine, [British Foreign
 Secretary] Robin Cook and Albright told secessionist Albanians in
 Kosovo that everything will be fine in Rambouillet, and that any
 agreement will be in their favor.

 But they didn't ask other nationalities in Kosovo what they want. I
 told them that the KLA doesn't represent the opinion of all Albanian
 people, that there are three other Albanian political parties who have
 a different view, as do Romas, Serbs, Muslims and other
 nationalities.

 They wouldn't listen.

 In Paris, the representatives of Yugoslavia didn't sign the paper.
 Albright told them, whether you sign or not, Kosovo will be a republic.
 When Albright was in Kosovo, she embraced and kissed Hasim Thaci,
 the terrorists' leader [of the KLA].

 Lituchy: Why do you think the United States launched this war?

 Jasari: To establish military bases and extend its occupation of the
 Balkans, to dictate to all countries in Europe.

 Lituchy: What do you have to say to groups and individuals who claim
 Yugoslavia was a police state, oppressing [Albanians]?

 Jasari: It's just not true. I'm Albanian, and I have all the same rights
 as any Serbian. Every country must hold onto its own territory and not
 give it to other countries or to an ethnic minority. One third of the
 people in Yugoslavia are ethnic minorities. Why do we have problems
 only with Albanians? This problem didn't arise yesterday. After World
 War II, many Albanians wanted to secede from Yugoslavia; they were
 preparing for secession. I asked Albanians from Albania and
 Albanians from Kosovo, who has a better life? All the knowledge and
 property Albanians have is in Kosovo, not Albania. The Republic of
 Serbia, Belgrade, and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia wanted to
 help them, to support them. You can find Albanian doctors,
 professors, engineers, and all professions. Our government wanted
 and still wants to provide education, to help them. Education was free.

 SECOND INTERVIEW

    Corin Ismali, Under-Secretary for National Social
  Questions in the Kosovo Executive Council, Secretary of
                 the Democratic Initiative.

 Lituchy: Would you tell us what happened after the bombing stopped
 in Kosovo?

 Ismali: We had to leave Kosovo because KFOR didn't guarantee us
 freedom, peace, or the possibility to walk in the evening without being
 afraid of KLA soldiers.

 Lituchy: Were you threatened?

 Ismali: Yes, because I opposed secession.

 Lituchy: Why do [some] Albanians support Yugoslavia?

 Ismali: Because we want to live with other ethnic groups in
 Yugoslavia. We don't want to live in a country with only one ethnic
 group.

 Lituchy: Why do some join the KLA?

 Koteska: [For many] if they didn't join, they'll kill and torture them,
 rape their wives, daughters. They had to.

 Lituchy: Would you like to return to Kosovo?

 Ismali: Of course. Why not? If our army and police return, I'll go the
 same day. I must have peace, freedom, and no one to threaten me
 before I can return.

 Friendly: Does the KLA give any indication of their interest in
 democracy, or do they tend to be more totalitarian?

 Ismali: I think it won't be democracy.

 THIRD INTERVIEW

 Fatmir Seholi, Chief Editor, Radio/Television Pristina

 Lituchy: Tell us about the media available for Albanians.

 Seholi: Albanians had more media than Serbs. In Kosovo, you could
 find only one newspaper in Serbian but about 65 in Albanian.

 Lituchy: Did you go to Pristina University [in Kosovo]?

 Seholi: Yes.

 Lituchy: In what language were your courses?

 Seholi: Albanian.

 Lituchy: Are you aware that in America, the television and radio and
 newspapers were regularly saying Albanians have no rights in
 Yugoslavia?

 Seholi: I think America didn't have the right information.

 ORIGINS OF THE KLA

 Seholi: Until I arrived here as a refugee, I worked as Chief Editor at
 Radio/Television Pristina, in Albanian. I spoke with KFOR about a
 peaceful solution for problems in Kosovo.

 El-Sayed: Did the United States create the KLA?

 Seholi: The KLA received great support from America and Germany.
 According to our Secret Service, they created the KLA. But why? The
 United States was the leading country against terrorism, but in our
 case the United States supported and still supports KLA terrorism.
 Two years ago, on a night in January 1997, the KLA killed my father,
 Malic Seholi. He was called a "traitor" because he supported
 Yugoslavia and the Serbian government, not the KLA. He loved living
 with all ethnic groups in Kosovo. He was 51 years old.

 The KLA told us that they did it.

 Lituchy: The KLA themselves said that?

 Koteska: Yes, yes.

 Seholi: The KLA said they killed more than one thousand people
 because they were not Albanian or wanted Kosovo to stay in
 Yugoslavia. And that doesn't even include members of the Yugoslav
 army they killed.

 Lituchy: Who else from your family was injured or killed by the
 KLA?

 Seholi: About two weeks ago, two of my brothers were tortured in
 Podujevo. After they beat them they let them go home. But they must
 call every day at 10 AM.

 Lituchy: They have to call the KLA?

 Koteska: Yes, yes.

 El-Sayed: Do you know what torture methods the KLA use?

 Seholi: What more do you want? They're killing people. By
 strangulation, by torture.

 Koteska: In some places their torture implements were found, like
 those used by the Inquisition centuries ago. I think the Inquisition
 would say, 'These new methods are better.'

 Lituchy: Why did they torture them?

 Seholi: Because they stayed in Kosovo and still support the Yugoslav
 government. Also because they worked in our government.

 Lituchy: So the KLA will not allow anybody to live in Kosovo who
 doesn't agree with them?

 Seholi: Exactly.

 Lituchy: Where was KFOR? {NATO}

 Seholi: KFOR was in Podujevo while the KLA threatened my two
 brothers. The KLA Commander walks the streets, armed, drunk,
 firing a rifle in the air. KFOR does nothing.

 Lituchy: Which sector?

 Seholi: British and American.

 Goldberg: Does anyone willingly join the KLA?

 Seholi: I think many join because they're forced. If someone refuses,
 he's tortured or killed. They used to say, "They vanished..." People
 value their lives.

 NATO SETS UP A KLA AMBUSH

 Seholi: I left Kosovo June 28th. The day before, I spoke with Maj.
 Kennedy from KFOR about the return of Albanians to the office, to
 work with Serbs and other non-Albanians. We formed a commission to
 plan programming for Radio/Television Pristina for the next five
 months.

 We worked out a good agreement. Representatives from KFOR and
 the UN also attended.

 We agreed that the next meeting would be the following day, at 10
 AM.

 We arrived at 9.

 At 9:30 three or four thousand Albanians gathered in front of the
 station. Neither representatives from KFOR nor from the UN
 appeared. At 10:15, three or four hundred Albanians forced their way
 into the station and smashed windows and equipment. Employees
 were threatened and beaten.

 Maj. Kennedy arrived at 10:30 and shouted at the crowd but in such a
 manner that it was clear he was merely posturing. He invited three
 representatives from the crowd inside for negotiations. After ten
 minutes one man came into our office and told us someone had placed
 a bomb in the station, so we must leave. Because of the danger, all
 but 15 employees left. I was one of those who remained. The KFOR
 Major and a Russian representative from the UN wanted us to leave
 because [they claimed there was] a bomb. They took us out and
 brought us through the crowd of four thousand. When we left the
 building, before we entered a KFOR car, the crowd shouted some
 rough things.

 I couldn't go home because it was possible I might be killed. I couldn't
 see my own children.

 Kotestka: He left Kosovo without anything.

 Seholi: I know now that KFOR and the UN arranged all of this. There
 was no bomb.

 After the NATO bombing stopped, I went with [temporary UN special
 representative for Kosovo] Sergio de Mello around Kosovo. The trip
 lasted five days. We visited almost every village and city in Kosovo
 and saw what damage resulted from NATO bombing and what
 damage resulted from gangs.

 I want to point out that Mr. Sergio de Mello seemed disinterested in
 damage from NATO bombing. Most of those who died from bombs
 were in fact Albanians. In just one strike in the village of Korisa, they
 killed 105 people. Mr. de Mello wasn't interested.

 Koteska: Most of those were little children, women, old men.

 Lituchy: What did you leave behind?

 Seholi: My mother and two brothers.

 Lituchy: Have you heard from them?

 Seholi: Yes.

 Lituchy: Are they safe?

 Seholi: The KLA's secret police visited my flat three times and
 removed all they could.

 Lituchy: What do you think the future is in Kosovo?

 Seholi: I think powerful Western countries have their own plans for
 Kosovo.

 Freeland: Following up this question of the bombing of Albanians
 inside Kosovo, did you notice a trend of more of them being bombed
 earlier in the bombing vs. later in the bombing? In other words, [did
 you notice that the bombing was used to] attempt to get them to flee,
 to make it seem like something else [i.e., Serbian persecution] was
 going on?

 Seholi: Albanians got hurt from all sides, but mainly from NATO
 bombing. More than 300 Albanians were killed by NATO bombings.

 El-Sayed: Do you think that NATO bombed Albanians purposely, to
 make them leave?

 Seholi: Whether that was their purpose or not, people were killed.
 The man who could command NATO to bomb people isn't human.
 After the bombing of Djakovica I saw decapitated bodies. I have
 pictures. It's horrible.

 Jasari: Now we see that the US doesn't care about any ethnic
 minority. Before NATO started bombing us, they said they're
 protecting Albanians. If they were protecting Albanians they wouldn't
 be bombing them.

 The aim of the US was clear: to create a Greater Albania, to sever
 Kosovo from Yugoslavia. The Western countries have military bases
 in Albania. They want to expand throughout the Balkans and have a
 controlling influence in other countries. Unfortunately, our Albanian
 people are the victims of that, also of Albanian terrorism.

 [KLA leader] Hasim Thaci was in the US and other Western
 countries, not in Kosovo. He came to Kosovo after NATO bombing
 ceased, and after our army left Kosovo. What kind of Albanian is that
 who doesn't protect the Albanian people? We, as Albanians, together
 with the other nationalities, protected everyone in Kosovo.
 Regardless of whether he is Albanian, Egyptian, Serb or Turk, he's a
 human being who lives in Kosovo.

 The US used the Albanian people as the excuse for aggression and
 perhaps they will again. KFOR and the United States can't guarantee
 in Kosovo. They can only guarantee that terrorists walk armed
 through cities and villages and act without restraint. When someone
 reports that someone is killed or kidnapped, they do nothing to stop
 such actions. Many KFOR soldiers support the KLA.

 Lituchy: How many Albanians live in Serbia?

 Jasari: In Belgrade alone you can find about 80,000, many as long as
 twenty years. They have rights, they work, they have offices, no one
 bothers them.

 Jasari: According to the Serbian Constitution, everyone has the same
 rights. It doesn't depend on nationality. After the visit of Mr. [Bob]
 Dole and [Joe] DiGuardi [in 1990] some Albanians started pushing for
 a Greater Albania. They [i.e., the U.S. government] promised a
 Greater Albania, providing support, both monetary and other.

 Friendly: What is your comment on the allegations of wrong-doing by
 the Serbian military in Kosovo? How would you compare that with
 what NATO did. Is there some basis for the allegations that the
 Serbian army was wantonly killing villagers, or were they actually
 after the KLA?

 Jasari: It's not true. It's propaganda. The Yugoslav army never
 attacked anyone in Kosovo. They only defended themselves.

 Lituchy: An argument certain U.S. officials made was that the US had
 to go to war because these people couldn't live together. Comments?

 Jasari: There was no reason to bomb us. We lived together. Why
 didn't the United States influence the KLA to negotiate with our
 government before Rambouillet?

 El-Sayed: When you met Albright [at Rambouillet], why did she say
 they were in Kosovo? Did she say the Yugoslav army was killing
 innocent civilians?

 Jasari: She told me that. I told her, "Don't speak from your
 imagination. Do you have some facts? We have facts that this isn't
 happening." But she said, "We don't need facts." You couldn't say
 anything to her.[Now] Albanians have lost everything. They no longer
 have property, accommodations. They have a Narco-Mafia [the
 KLA]. Kosovo is [or was] multi-ethnic, multi-cultural and
 multi-religious. Unfortunately, these days Serbians, Romas
 ("Gypsies"), Muslims, Egyptians, Albanians who don't support the
 political aims of the KLA have fled. One only one ethnic group will
 live in Kosovo.

 Lituchy: Are you getting help right now from abroad?

 Jasari: None.

 Lituchy: What kind of help can Americans give?

 Seholi: Any kind: food, medicine. Clothes, because winter will come.

 Lituchy: Is there an Albanian Yugoslav organization we can deal with
 directly?

 Jasari: It is best to deal through the International Red Cross or the
 Yugoslav Red Cross. But when you send help, arrange to whom the
 aid should go, otherwise it may be diverted to the terrorists.

 CONCLUDING REMARKS

 Haliti: Do the US and the 19 countries who bombed us know that
 Hasim Thaci's [KLA]army has no ethnic groups but Albanians? They
 said the reason they bombed us is because there is no multi-cultural
 life in Kosovo.

 Lituchy: Did American human rights officials ever contact you?

 Seholi: No, but I had a conversation with Mr. Jerzy Dienstbier from
 the UN human rights organization.

 Jasari: There was one visit from the United States called the Mission
 of Peace, before the war. We spoke with a Colonel Robert from that
 group. They asked about the situation and our rights and listened to
 us. But the other delegations came with their own opinions, to support
 the terrorists. They never told the truth back in their countries. Some
 delegations visited only Albanians who supported terrorism, never our
 side. I want to travel to tell the truth about what has happened.

 Seholi: One day before I left Kosovo, a woman came to my flat and
 said that if I told people my father was killed by Serbs I could have a
 high-ranking position in the KLA.

 The United States is heavily involved with the KLA, they work closely
 together. Why didn't the United States do anything many months ago,
 when the KLA was killing citizens of Kosovo? The US took measures
 only when the KLA was about to be destroyed. What can one think
 when one sees Madeleine Albright, President Clinton, [KLA leader]
 Hasim Thaci together, and Albright gives Thaci a kiss? We accuse
 Mr. Clinton for the crimes Thaci has committed, not only to Albanians
 in Kosovo but to all ethnic groups. Mr. Clinton is indirectly connected
 with the murder of my father.

 * End of interview *

 For first-hand information and in-depth analysis of Yugoslavia and the
 war, go to: http://www.emperors-clothes.com

 For an interview with the leader of Kosovo's Jewish community,
 driven out of Pristina by the KLA, see
 http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm

 NEWLY POSTED: TO KOSOVO AND BACK --
 http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm
 In this report, a diplomat's aide tells a harrowing tale of his
 just-completed trip through Kosovo...

 Also: Credible Deception - How the NY Times Covered the Sudan
 Bombing
 This article proceeds by careful analysis to uncover a pattern of
 dishonesty in foreign policy reporting.
 http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/Jared%20Israel/sud

>

--
Xxxx Xxxxx Xxxxxx
Ph.D Student
Department of Political Science
SUNY at Albany
Nelson A. Rockefeller College
135 Western Ave.; Milne 102
Albany, NY 12222



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